Israeli abuse of Palestinans? Israeli men aren't strapping themselves full of explosives and shooting their way into Palestinan settlements. We should stand by Israel because they have been dealing with terrorist attacks for years, and maybe, just maybe if the Arab world (besides Egypt and Jordan) would accept the right of Israel to exist, steps could be made to end the violence. I personally believe however that there can never be peace in the Middle East until "Palestinans" are gone. And why are they called Palestinans by everyone? They are just Arabs that happen to be living in that region of the Middle East. Someone please show me how their language, culture, etc. differ enough from Syrians or Egyptians or Saudi Arabians to warrant that? I am under the impression that they are all just Arabs.

>From: "Cherokee"

>To: mathewtate@hotmail.com

>Subject: [twgsdotorg] Re: OT Military

>Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 12:27:25 -0500

>The Bill of Rights hasn't been touched. It takes a Constitutional

>Amendment to do that. If there is anything wrong with the Patriot Act,

>the courts will set it straight eventually.

>I don't think the Islamic fundamentalist radicals will back off, but

>those are not the ones we are proposing to fight a war against. Sure

>it's all related, but the issue at hand is Saddam Hussein and his WMD.

>I do believe that US policy in the Middle East is flawed and is

>responsible for the increase in anti-US sentiment worldwide.

>Until we stop blindly supporting Israel (and ignoring Israeli abuse of

>the Palestinians), Arabs and Muslims everywhere will continue to hate

>us.

>--- col sanders wrote:

> >

> > My concerns are that while I don't necessarily fear anything from the

> >

> > current administration, weakening the Bill of Rights for future

> > administrations is quite dangerous, if for example we got another

> > Clinton type in office, imagine the danger to those of us that are

> > not

> > secularly mainstream. The USA Patriot act is bad, ignoring due

> > process

> > is bad, the DMCA is bad. I am still hoping they will have the balls

> > to

> > reverse the bad law the first Bush signed regarding "assault

> > weapons".

> > They also need to reopen the streets in DC, the great Coward

> > (Clinton)

> > should be the last coward, let DC return to pre-Clinton normalcy.

> >

> > Regarding the need to fight a war, let me ask you this, do you really

> >

> > believe that the US can do ANYTHING that will met by the radical

> > muslim/arab terrorist groups backing off? Is that even possible at

> > this

> > point? I don't believe so... Maybe you do...

> >

> > Cherokee wrote:

> >

> > >Agreed, people don't HAVE to be searched, it is voluntary (only

> > >compulsory if you wish to fly on an airliner).

> > >

> > >I don't think it's a foregone conclusion that we need to fight a

> > war,

> > >though it probably will come to that.

> > >

> > >I don't see why you are frightened by the President's "recent record

> > on

> > >liberty". What are you afraid of (specifically)?

> > >

> > >--- col sanders wrote:

> > >

> > >>We can get into a discussion of how it all started when the great

> > >>Communist FDR blackmailed the supreme court to misinterpret the

> > >>Commerce

> > >>Clause, and how that led to the regulation of EVERYTHING including

> > >>airlines and the great loss of freedoms we enjoy today... But why

> > >>over-complicate things. The airlines are private industry. They

> > are

> > >>

> > >>regulated, as is EVERYTHING these days. Americans are STUPID and

> > >>need

> > >>to be protected from themselves (not my opinion, the opinion of

> > thsoe

> > >>in

> > >>power). People don't *have to be searched* they can ride amtrak if

> > >>they

> > >>object so much (for foreigners, thats the train). Anyway, let not

> > >>confuse things, do we need to fight a war in the middle east,

> > >>probably.

> > >> Is the Bush Admin's recent record on liberty frightening, yes.

> > Are

> > >>the

> > >>two related, no.

> > >>

> > >>Cherokee wrote:

> > >>

> > >>>That is oversimplified. It is not the airlines mandating the

> > >>>

> > >>searches.

> > >>

> > >>>In fact, the airlines are no longer able to employ their own

> > >>>

> > >>security

> > >>

> > >>>personnel. The Transportation Security Administration (TSA) is

> > the

> > >>>

> > >>new

> > >>

> > >>>government agency handling airport security, and we DO in fact

> > have

> > >>>less freedom when flying than we used to.

> > >>>

> > >>>Even so, I say big deal. They are working to protect planes and

> > >>>passengers from terrorism. They aren't digging through your

> > luggage

> > >>>

> > >>to

> > >>

> > >>>try to find out if you cheated on your taxes.

> > >>>

> > >>>--- col sanders wrote:

> > >>>

> > >>>>Being able to lock your bags on an airplan has nothing to do with

> >

> > >>>>freedom. Airlines are a private company, and as such they have

> > the

> > >>>>

> > >>>>right to inspect their customers on their private property.

> > >>>>

> > >>>><> wrote:

> > >>>>

> > >>>>>So your saying that ONE SOUL ACT by non-Americans is enough to

> > >>>>>

> > >>take

> > >>

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>away

> > >>>>

> > >>>>>some of the freedom of Americans..

> > >>>>>Does this mean that "IF" these attacks continue that more

> > freedom

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>will be

> > >>>>

> > >>>>>lost ..

> > >>>>>Valid Point of View ..

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>>----- Original Message -----

> > >>>>>From: "sloppy"

> > >>>>>To:

> > >>>>>Sent: Saturday, January 11, 2003 11:42 PM

> > >>>>>Subject: [twgsdotorg] Re: OT Military

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>>>

We lost that freedom because a group of "men" took it upon

> > >>>>>>

> > >>>>themselves

> > >>>>

> > >>>>>>

> > >>>>>to abuse the system to achieve their goal of killing American

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>civilians.

> > >>>>

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>>>

>That's not the point either ..

> > >>>>>>

>Talk about freedom .. what happened to the

> > freedom

> > >>>>>>

> > >>>>of

> > >>>>

> > >>>>>>

> > >>>>>locking your bags ..

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>>>

>When you fly now bags stay unlocked ..

> > >>>>>>

>Killing someone doesnt "Give" freedom either ..

> > so

> > >>>>>>

> > >>>>you just

> > >>>>

> > >>>>>>

> > >>>>>completely came

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>>>

>out and said something that's just way out there

> > >>>>>>

> > >>..

> > >>

> > >>>>>>

>----- Original Message -----

> > >>>>>>

>From: "Sting"

> > >>>>>>

>To:

> > >>>>>>

>Sent: Saturday, January 11, 2003 10:11 PM

> > >>>>>>

>Subject: [twgsdotorg] Re: OT Military

> > >>>>>>

> >

> > >>>>>>

> > SOMEONE HAS TO PAY FOR YOUR FREEDOM!!

> > >>>>>>

> > BECAUSE IT"S NOT FREE !!!

> > >>>>>>

> > Sting

> > >>>>>>

> > ----- Original Message -----

> > >>>>>>

> > From: "<>"

> > >>>>>>

> > >>>>

> > >>>>>>

> > To:

> > >>>>>>

> > Sent: Saturday, January 11, 2003 07:27

> > >>>>>>

> > Subject: [twgsdotorg] Re: OT Military

> > >>>>>>

> >

> > >>>>>>

> >

> > >>>>>>

> > >

> > >>>>>>

> > > I dont think that's his point

> > >>>>>>

> > > When it comes down to it you have to

> > be

> > >>>>>>

> > >>>>able to

> > >>>>

> > >>>>>>

> > >>>>>handle killing someone

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>>>

> > else

> > >>>>>>

> > > just because it's the political thing

> > >>>>>>

> > >>to

> > >>

> > >>>>>>

> > >>>>do ..

> > >>>>

> > >>>>>>

> > >>>>>If you cant handle that

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>>>

> > Idea

> > >>>>>>

> > > then you shouldnt be in the military

> > >>>>>>

> > >>>>(Regardless

> > >>>>

> > >>>>>>

> > >>>>>of position)

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>>>

> > >

> > >>>>>>

> > > my .02

> > >>>>>>

> > >

> > >>>>>>

> > > ----- Original Message -----

> > >>>>>>

> > > From: "pagan"

> > >>>>>>

> > > To:

> > >>>>>>

> > > Sent: Saturday, January 11, 2003

> > 12:14

> > >>>>>>

> > >>PM

> > >>

> > >>>>>>

> > > Subject: [twgsdotorg] Re: OT Military

> > >>>>>>

> > >

> > >>>>>>

> > >

> > >>>>>>

> > > >

> > >>>>>>

> > > > You would be surprized to know

> > >>>>>>

> > >>that

> > >>

> > >>>>>>

> > >>>>the

> > >>>>

> > >>>>>>

> > >>>>>overwhelming majority of

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>>>

>service

> > >>>>>>

> > > men and women never fire a shot

> > outside

> > >>>>>>

> > >>>>of basic

> > >>>>

> > >>>>>>

> > >>>>>training or a firing

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>>>

> > range.

> > >>>>>>

> > > In fact, there are more opportunities

> > >>>>>>

> > >>to

> > >>

> > >>>>>>

> > >>>>save

> > >>>>

> > >>>>>>

> > >>>>>lives or make living

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>>>

> > > conditions more habitable than to

> > take

> > >>>>>>

> > >>>>them.

> > >>>>

> > >>>>>>

> > >>>>>Yes, even in an all out war

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>>>

> > > situation.

> > >>>>>>

> > > >

> > >>>>>>

> > > > Pagan

> > >>>>>>

> > > >

> > >>>>>>

> > > >

> > >>>>>>

> > > > >From a message by prestone

> > >>>>>>

> > >>about

> > >>

> > >>>>>>

> > >>>>Re: OT

> > >>>>

> > >>>>>>

> > >>>>>Military:

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>>>

> > > > > as long as you don't have a

> > >>>>>>

> > >>>>problem

> > >>>>

> > >>>>>>

> > >>>>>killing your fellow human

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>>>

>beings,

> > >>>>>>

> > go

> > >>>>>>

> > > for it.

> > >>>>>>

> > > > >

> > >>>>>>

> > > > > >From a message by

> > sloppy

> > >>>>>>

> > >>>>about OT

> > >>>>

> > >>>>>>

> > >>>>>Military:

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>>>

> > > > > > With an anticipated

> > >>>>>>

> > >>>>graduation

> > >>>>

> > >>>>>>

> > >>>>>from college in December, I've

> > >>>>

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>>>

>been

> > >>>>>>

> > > pondering what to do from this point

> > on

> > >>>>>>

> > >>>>in life.

> > >>>>

> > >>>>>>

> > >>>>>I recently hit upon

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>>>

>the

> > >>>>>>

> > > idea of the military, was wondering

> > if

> > >>>>>>

> > >>>>people

> > >>>>

> > >>>>>>

> > >>>>>could offer input, horror

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>>>

> > > stories, advice, warnings, etc.

> > >>>>>>

> > >>Anything

> > >>

> > >>>>>>

> > >>>>would

> > >>>>

> > >>>>>>

> > >>>>>be appreciated.

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>>>

> > > > >

> > >>>>>>

> > > > >

> > >>>>>>

> > > >

> > >>>>>>

> > > >

> > >>>>>>

> > > >

> > >>>>>>

> > >

> > >>>>>>

> >

> > >>>>>>

Help STOP SPAM: Try the new

> > >>>>>>

> > >>MSN

> > >>

> > >>>>>>

> > >>>>8 and

> > >>>>

> > >>>>>>

> > >>>>>get 2 months FREE*

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>

> > >>>>>

> > >>>

> > >