Subj : Re: OT Military To : All From : col sanders Date : Mon Jan 13 2003 12:45 pm I completely disagree with you on Israel, if anything, we have been holding them back and stopping them from defeating those that want to destroy them, we ought to let them go and do what they need to do, even if its an ugly war. As for US policy in the mideast, yes its been bad, we ought not prop up dictators and support evil governments like the Saudi's and such. As for the radical and our war, Iraq is not the war that we have to conern ourselves with, it is just one battle. It is what comes after Iraq that we should be focusing on. Lastly the Bill of Rights, I do hope you are right and the Courts will fix it. I generally like the Supreme Court lately, but remember, that court is still incapable of defending human life from those that want a convenient promiscuous lifestyle, so who knows, will have to see what they do. I think it would be novel though to have an administration that didn't even *try* to limit our rights. Lastly, you like how I go from bottom to top? Heh I must be crazy! Col Sanders Cherokee wrote: >The Bill of Rights hasn't been touched. It takes a Constitutional >Amendment to do that. If there is anything wrong with the Patriot Act, >the courts will set it straight eventually. > >I don't think the Islamic fundamentalist radicals will back off, but >those are not the ones we are proposing to fight a war against. Sure >it's all related, but the issue at hand is Saddam Hussein and his WMD. > >I do believe that US policy in the Middle East is flawed and is >responsible for the increase in anti-US sentiment worldwide. > >Until we stop blindly supporting Israel (and ignoring Israeli abuse of >the Palestinians), Arabs and Muslims everywhere will continue to hate >us. > > > >--- col sanders wrote: > > >>My concerns are that while I don't necessarily fear anything from the >> >>current administration, weakening the Bill of Rights for future >>administrations is quite dangerous, if for example we got another >>Clinton type in office, imagine the danger to those of us that are >>not >>secularly mainstream. The USA Patriot act is bad, ignoring due >>process >>is bad, the DMCA is bad. I am still hoping they will have the balls >>to >>reverse the bad law the first Bush signed regarding "assault >>weapons". >> They also need to reopen the streets in DC, the great Coward >>(Clinton) >>should be the last coward, let DC return to pre-Clinton normalcy. >> >>Regarding the need to fight a war, let me ask you this, do you really >> >>believe that the US can do ANYTHING that will met by the radical >>muslim/arab terrorist groups backing off? Is that even possible at >>this >>point? I don't believe so... Maybe you do... >> >>Cherokee wrote: >> >> >> >>>Agreed, people don't HAVE to be searched, it is voluntary (only >>>compulsory if you wish to fly on an airliner). >>> >>>I don't think it's a foregone conclusion that we need to fight a >>> >>> >>war, >> >> >>>though it probably will come to that. >>> >>>I don't see why you are frightened by the President's "recent record >>> >>> >>on >> >> >>>liberty". What are you afraid of (specifically)? >>> >>> >>> >>>--- col sanders wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>We can get into a discussion of how it all started when the great >>>>Communist FDR blackmailed the supreme court to misinterpret the >>>>Commerce >>>>Clause, and how that led to the regulation of EVERYTHING including >>>>airlines and the great loss of freedoms we enjoy today... But why >>>>over-complicate things. The airlines are private industry. They >>>> >>>> >>are >> >> >>>>regulated, as is EVERYTHING these days. Americans are STUPID and >>>>need >>>>to be protected from themselves (not my opinion, the opinion of >>>> >>>> >>thsoe >> >> >>>>in >>>>power). People don't *have to be searched* they can ride amtrak if >>>>they >>>>object so much (for foreigners, thats the train). Anyway, let not >>>>confuse things, do we need to fight a war in the middle east, >>>>probably. >>>>Is the Bush Admin's recent record on liberty frightening, yes. >>>> >>>> >>Are >> >> >>>>the >>>>two related, no. >>>> >>>>Cherokee wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>That is oversimplified. It is not the airlines mandating the >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>searches. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>In fact, the airlines are no longer able to employ their own >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>security >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>personnel. The Transportation Security Administration (TSA) is >>>>> >>>>> >>the >> >> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>new >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>government agency handling airport security, and we DO in fact >>>>> >>>>> >>have >> >> >>>>>less freedom when flying than we used to. >>>>> >>>>>Even so, I say big deal. They are working to protect planes and >>>>>passengers from terrorism. They aren't digging through your >>>>> >>>>> >>luggage >> >> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>to >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>try to find out if you cheated on your taxes. >>>>> >>>>>--- col sanders wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>Being able to lock your bags on an airplan has nothing to do with >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>freedom. Airlines are a private company, and as such they have >>>>>> >>>>>> >>the >> >> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>right to inspect their customers on their private property. >>>>>> >>>>>><> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>So your saying that ONE SOUL ACT by non-Americans is enough to >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>take >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>away >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>some of the freedom of Americans.. >>>>>>>Does this mean that "IF" these attacks continue that more >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>freedom >> >> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>will be >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>lost .. >>>>>>>Valid Point of View .. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>From: "sloppy" >>>>>>>To: >>>>>>>Sent: Saturday, January 11, 2003 11:42 PM >>>>>>>Subject: [twgsdotorg] Re: OT Military >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>

 

>>>>>>>>

We lost that freedom because a group of "men" took it upon >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>themselves >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>to abuse the system to achieve their goal of killing American >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>civilians.

>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>
>
>>>>>>>>
>That's not the point either .. >>>>>>>>
>Talk about freedom .. what happened to the >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>freedom >> >> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>of >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>locking your bags .. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>
>When you fly now bags stay unlocked .. >>>>>>>>
>Killing someone doesnt "Give" freedom either .. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>so >> >> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>you just >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>completely came >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>
>out and said something that's just way out there >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>.. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
>----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>
>From: "Sting" >>>>>>>>
>To: >>>>>>>>
>Sent: Saturday, January 11, 2003 10:11 PM >>>>>>>>
>Subject: [twgsdotorg] Re: OT Military >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>
> > SOMEONE HAS TO PAY FOR YOUR FREEDOM!! >>>>>>>>
> > BECAUSE IT"S NOT FREE !!! >>>>>>>>
> > Sting >>>>>>>>
> > ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>
> > From: "<>" >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>
> > To: >>>>>>>>
> > Sent: Saturday, January 11, 2003 07:27 >>>>>>>>
> > Subject: [twgsdotorg] Re: OT Military >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>
> > > I dont think that's his point >>>>>>>>
> > > When it comes down to it you have to >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>be >> >> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>able to >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>handle killing someone >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>
> > else >>>>>>>>
> > > just because it's the political thing >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>to >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>do .. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>If you cant handle that >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>
> > Idea >>>>>>>>
> > > then you shouldnt be in the military >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>(Regardless >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>of position) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>
> > > my .02 >>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>
> > > ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>
> > > From: "pagan" >>>>>>>>
> > > To: >>>>>>>>
> > > Sent: Saturday, January 11, 2003 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>12:14 >> >> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>PM >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>
> > > Subject: [twgsdotorg] Re: OT Military >>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > You would be surprized to know >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>that >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>the >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>overwhelming majority of >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>
>service >>>>>>>>
> > > men and women never fire a shot >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>outside >> >> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>of basic >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>training or a firing >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>
> > range. >>>>>>>>
> > > In fact, there are more opportunities >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>to >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>save >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>lives or make living >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>
> > > conditions more habitable than to >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>take >> >> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>them. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>Yes, even in an all out war >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>
> > > situation. >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > Pagan >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >From a message by prestone >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>about >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>Re: OT >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>Military: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>
> > > > > as long as you don't have a >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>problem >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>killing your fellow human >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>
>beings, >>>>>>>>
> > go >>>>>>>>
> > > for it. >>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > > >From a message by >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>sloppy >> >> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>about OT >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>Military: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>
> > > > > > With an anticipated >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>graduation >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>from college in December, I've >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>
>been >>>>>>>>
> > > pondering what to do from this point >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>on >> >> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>in life. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>I recently hit upon >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>
>the >>>>>>>>
> > > idea of the military, was wondering >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>if >> >> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>people >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>could offer input, horror >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>
> > > stories, advice, warnings, etc. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>Anything >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>would >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>be appreciated. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>

Help STOP SPAM: Try the new >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>MSN >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>8 and >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>get 2 months FREE* >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> > > > > --- FEddy 1.4.03/modPHX * Origin: http://www.twgs.org -- THE Trade Wars web forum! (1:229/522.0) .