Subj : Re: OT Military To : All From : col sanders Date : Mon Jan 13 2003 12:15 pm Here are some specifics on the Patriot Act if you really are interested... http://www.eff.org/Privacy/Surveillance/Terrorism_militias/20011031_eff_usa_pat riot_analysis.html col sanders wrote: >My concerns are that while I don't necessarily fear anything from the >current administration, weakening the Bill of Rights for future >administrations is quite dangerous, if for example we got another >Clinton type in office, imagine the danger to those of us that are not >secularly mainstream. The USA Patriot act is bad, ignoring due process >is bad, the DMCA is bad. I am still hoping they will have the balls to >reverse the bad law the first Bush signed regarding "assault weapons". > They also need to reopen the streets in DC, the great Coward (Clinton) >should be the last coward, let DC return to pre-Clinton normalcy. > >Regarding the need to fight a war, let me ask you this, do you really >believe that the US can do ANYTHING that will met by the radical >muslim/arab terrorist groups backing off? Is that even possible at this >point? I don't believe so... Maybe you do... > >Cherokee wrote: > > > >>Agreed, people don't HAVE to be searched, it is voluntary (only >>compulsory if you wish to fly on an airliner). >> >>I don't think it's a foregone conclusion that we need to fight a war, >>though it probably will come to that. >> >>I don't see why you are frightened by the President's "recent record on >>liberty". What are you afraid of (specifically)? >> >> >> >>--- col sanders wrote: >> >> >> >> >>>We can get into a discussion of how it all started when the great >>>Communist FDR blackmailed the supreme court to misinterpret the >>>Commerce >>>Clause, and how that led to the regulation of EVERYTHING including >>>airlines and the great loss of freedoms we enjoy today... But why >>>over-complicate things. The airlines are private industry. They are >>> >>>regulated, as is EVERYTHING these days. Americans are STUPID and >>>need >>>to be protected from themselves (not my opinion, the opinion of thsoe >>>in >>>power). People don't *have to be searched* they can ride amtrak if >>>they >>>object so much (for foreigners, thats the train). Anyway, let not >>>confuse things, do we need to fight a war in the middle east, >>>probably. >>>Is the Bush Admin's recent record on liberty frightening, yes. Are >>>the >>>two related, no. >>> >>>Cherokee wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>That is oversimplified. It is not the airlines mandating the >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>searches. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>In fact, the airlines are no longer able to employ their own >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>security >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>personnel. The Transportation Security Administration (TSA) is the >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>new >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>government agency handling airport security, and we DO in fact have >>>>less freedom when flying than we used to. >>>> >>>>Even so, I say big deal. They are working to protect planes and >>>>passengers from terrorism. They aren't digging through your luggage >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>to >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>try to find out if you cheated on your taxes. >>>> >>>>--- col sanders wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>Being able to lock your bags on an airplan has nothing to do with >>>>>freedom. Airlines are a private company, and as such they have the >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>right to inspect their customers on their private property. >>>>> >>>>><> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>So your saying that ONE SOUL ACT by non-Americans is enough to >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>take >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>away >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>some of the freedom of Americans.. >>>>>>Does this mean that "IF" these attacks continue that more freedom >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>will be >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>lost .. >>>>>>Valid Point of View .. >>>>>> >>>>>>----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>From: "sloppy" >>>>>>To: >>>>>>Sent: Saturday, January 11, 2003 11:42 PM >>>>>>Subject: [twgsdotorg] Re: OT Military >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>>>>>

 

>>>>>>>

We lost that freedom because a group of "men" took it upon >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>themselves >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>to abuse the system to achieve their goal of killing American >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>civilians.

>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>
>
>>>>>>>
>That's not the point either .. >>>>>>>
>Talk about freedom .. what happened to the freedom >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>of >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>locking your bags .. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>
>When you fly now bags stay unlocked .. >>>>>>>
>Killing someone doesnt "Give" freedom either .. so >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>you just >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>completely came >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>
>out and said something that's just way out there >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>.. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
>----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>
>From: "Sting" >>>>>>>
>To: >>>>>>>
>Sent: Saturday, January 11, 2003 10:11 PM >>>>>>>
>Subject: [twgsdotorg] Re: OT Military >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > SOMEONE HAS TO PAY FOR YOUR FREEDOM!! >>>>>>>
> > BECAUSE IT"S NOT FREE !!! >>>>>>>
> > Sting >>>>>>>
> > ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>
> > From: "<>" >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>
> > To: >>>>>>>
> > Sent: Saturday, January 11, 2003 07:27 >>>>>>>
> > Subject: [twgsdotorg] Re: OT Military >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > I dont think that's his point >>>>>>>
> > > When it comes down to it you have to be >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>able to >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>handle killing someone >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>
> > else >>>>>>>
> > > just because it's the political thing >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>to >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>do .. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>If you cant handle that >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>
> > Idea >>>>>>>
> > > then you shouldnt be in the military >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>(Regardless >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>of position) >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > my .02 >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>
> > > From: "pagan" >>>>>>>
> > > To: >>>>>>>
> > > Sent: Saturday, January 11, 2003 12:14 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>PM >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>>>>
> > > Subject: [twgsdotorg] Re: OT Military >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > You would be surprized to know >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>that >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>the >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>overwhelming majority of >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>
>service >>>>>>>
> > > men and women never fire a shot outside >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>of basic >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>training or a firing >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>
> > range. >>>>>>>
> > > In fact, there are more opportunities >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>to >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>save >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>lives or make living >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>
> > > conditions more habitable than to take >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>them. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>Yes, even in an all out war >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>
> > > situation. >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > Pagan >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >From a message by prestone >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>about >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>Re: OT >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>Military: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>
> > > > > as long as you don't have a >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>problem >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>killing your fellow human >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>
>beings, >>>>>>>
> > go >>>>>>>
> > > for it. >>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > > >From a message by sloppy >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>about OT >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>Military: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>
> > > > > > With an anticipated >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>graduation >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>from college in December, I've >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>
>been >>>>>>>
> > > pondering what to do from this point on >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>in life. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>I recently hit upon >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>
>the >>>>>>>
> > > idea of the military, was wondering if >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>people >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>could offer input, horror >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>
> > > stories, advice, warnings, etc. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>Anything >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>would >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>be appreciated. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>

Help STOP SPAM: Try the new >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>MSN >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>8 and >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>get 2 months FREE* >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >> >> >> >> > > > > --- FEddy 1.4.03/modPHX * Origin: http://www.twgs.org -- THE Trade Wars web forum! (1:229/522.0) .