Subj : Re: Win4lin To : Time Warrior From : Mweeby Date : Tue Oct 04 2005 06:51 am > This is a perfect example. I had no idea you were blind and blind BBS'ers > always amaze me with their ability to completely conqure their imparement. > They learn differently, which again proves my point. However, lack of "sight" > isn't the only imparement a person can have. Different peoples minds learn in > different ways by default. A "physical" difference such as lacking the > ability to proccess visual data, is yet another monkey wrench to throw into > the learning proccess that clearly makes my point. > > I personally can learn most things on my own. Some things require that i be > taught by someone. Others I know I can never wrap my mind around. For what I > can teach myself, my learning proccess has a few rules that are set in place. > Who set them? Genetics? God? The universe? I have no idea. All I know is that > they are there. > > I learn better via audio which is why I am good at creating music and a > much better speaker than I am a typer when it comes to making or > understanding a concept. For learning computers and other things, this also > means that even if a phone conversation isn't possible, examples work well > for me. Linspire provides a very easy GUI with craploads of audio / visual / > textual documentation and is easy to use. This has also made it easier for me > to learn the linux command prompt. I've known how to manuver through it for > quite some time however only basic knowledge. I can change directories and do > lists and all of the basic things that a more knowldgable novice might know > about a DOS Prompt. > > Installing apps has been hard to learn however so far I have managed to > install 3 linux apps successfully. GiMP is giving me some shit though when I > try to compile it. > > In the same light, if something as simple as GiMP (the linux equivelent of > Photoshop) is giving me problems and would give most linux n00bs problems, > then something as powerful as Synchronet Linux would be a nightmare for me. I > need to learn linux itself better before i can venture into something as > powerful as the linux version of Synchronet. > > The telnet end of my BBS REQUIRES ansi so I wish text to speech readers were > more intelligent and had options to ignore ANSI codes and higher ascii chrs. > > If you tried to telnet to my BBS I can guarentee it would confuse you. The > matrix login alone would likely drive your text to speech reader nuts. > > This is also why synchweb is a great idea for people in your possition. As > far as i've been able to see, text to speech apps have no issues with HTML. > Graphical links are easily used when ALT="" codes are in place. > > As for being blind -- if you've been blind all your life and if they ever > find a cure for blindness within your lifetime (they have developed > electronic eyes that interface directly with the brain and work as your eyes > should -- however at this point the proceedure is far too risky to be used > practically -- the chance of brain damage is higher than the chance of > restoring your sight, at this point) trust me when I say that seeing for the > first time -- as beautiful as sight is, will at first, scare the piss out of > you. > > Think of hearing as our universe and sight as being thrust into a universe > where the known laws of physics do not apply and have a completely different > set of laws. A perception that is so different and so forgin compared to > hearing -- that to someone who is seeing for the first time after being blind > -- it would be like hearing with your sense of smell, smelling with your > sense of hearing and feeling pleasure and pain using the perception of your > taste buds in your tounge. > > It would be hard to get used to but trust me when i say it would also be as > beautiful as it is horrifying. Think of the beauty of sight as the best song > you've ever heard and the horrors of sight as the most crappy song you've > ever heard. > > -- > .---------------------------------------------------------------. > | [TiME WaRRiOR] aka [Dave Kelso] AIM: Twar782 | +o Malkavia BBS | > | www : synchsupport.net - malkaviabbs.com - xpresit.net | > | www$: josephsjewelersonline.com - preferedinsurance.com | > | @: time.warrior@malkaviabbs. com | > \______________________________________________________________/ > --- Synchronet 3.12a-Win32 NewsLink 1.76 > * Malkavia - Chicago, IL - telnet://malkaviabbs.com > --- Synchronet 3.13b-Win32 NewsLink 1.83 > þ Synchronet þ Vertrauen þ Home of Synchronet þ telnet://vert.synchro.net > This is a perfect example. I had no idea you were blind and blind BBS'ers always amaze me with their ability to completely conqure their imparement. They learn differently, which again proves my point. However, lack of "sight" isn't the only imparement a person can have. Different peoples minds learn in different ways by default. A "physical" difference such as lacking the ability to proccess visual data, is yet another monkey wrench to throw into the learning proccess that clearly makes my point. I personally can learn most things on my own. Some things require that i be taught by someone. Others I know I can never wrap my mind around. For what I can teach myself, my learning proccess has a few rules that are set in place. Who set them? Genetics? God? The universe? I have no idea. All I know is that they are there. I learn better via audio which is why I am good at creating music and a much better speaker than I am a typer when it comes to making or understanding a concept. For learning computers and other things, this also means that even if a phone conversation isn't possible, examples work well for me. Linspire provides a very easy GUI with craploads of audio / visual / textual documentation and is easy to use. This has also made it easier for me to learn the linux command prompt. I've known how to manuver through it for quite some time however only basic knowledge. I can change directories and do lists and all of the basic things that a more knowldgable novice might know about a DOS Prompt. Installing apps has been hard to learn however so far I have managed to install 3 linux apps successfully. GiMP is giving me some shit though when I try to compile it. In the same light, if something as simple as GiMP (the linux equivelent of Photoshop) is giving me problems and would give most linux n00bs problems, then something as powerful as Synchronet Linux would be a nightmare for me. I need to learn linux itself better before i can venture into something as powerful as the linux version of Synchronet. The telnet end of my BBS REQUIRES ansi so I wish text to speech readers were more intelligent and had options to ignore ANSI codes and higher ascii chrs. If you tried to telnet to my BBS I can guarentee it would confuse you. The matrix login alone would likely drive your text to speech reader nuts. This is also why synchweb is a great idea for people in your possition. As far as i've been able to see, text to speech apps have no issues with HTML. Graphical links are easily used when ALT="" codes are in place. As for being blind -- if you've been blind all your life and if they ever find a cure for blindness within your lifetime (they have developed electronic eyes that interface directly with the brain and work as your eyes should -- however at this point the proceedure is far too risky to be used practically -- the chance of brain damage is higher than the chance of restoring your sight, at this point) trust me when I say that seeing for the first time -- as beautiful as sight is, will at first, scare the piss out of you. Think of hearing as our universe and sight as being thrust into a universe where the known laws of physics do not apply and have a completely different set of laws. A perception that is so different and so forgin compared to hearing -- that to someone who is seeing for the first time after being blind -- it would be like hearing with your sense of smell, smelling with your sense of hearing and feeling pleasure and pain using the perception of your taste buds in your tounge. It would be hard to get used to but trust me when i say it would also be as beautiful as it is horrifying. Think of the beauty of sight as the best song you've ever heard and the horrors of sight as the most crappy song you've ever heard. -- .---------------------------------------------------------------. | [TiME WaRRiOR] aka [Dave Kelso] AIM: Twar782 | +o Malkavia BBS | | www : synchsupport.net - malkaviabbs.com - xpresit.net | | www$: josephsjewelersonline.com - preferedinsurance.com | | @: time.warrior@malkaviabbs. com | \______________________________________________________________/ --- Synchronet 3.12a-Win32 NewsLink 1.76 * Malkavia - Chicago, IL - telnet://malkaviabbs.com --- Synchronet 3.13b-Win32 NewsLink 1.83 Well let's see. I don't feel the need to advertize the fact that I am blind because except in certain cases, I can do much in the Bbs world that everyone else can. You mentioned the matrix login screen on your bbs, well it's a bit of a nusence, but it can be gotten through, but that's only because I've seen it before and I know how to hack and slash my way through it to get to the login prompt. A little word about screen readers and how they react to extended ascii. At least under windows. there are only about 3 most widely used screen reading programs for blind windows users. they are Job Access With Speech (More commonly known as JAWS) http://www.freedomscientific.com , Window Eyes, http://www.gwmicro.com, and one called Hal 95, but I know little or nothing about that, but it's popular in the UK and other places in the world. I use JAWS, and although this program is great at what it does, when it encounters extended ASCII, it thinks it's reading accent marks used in various foreign languages, French, or German for instance. It's quite easy to turn off the speaking of conventional punctuation, besides, unless you were proof reading something, you don't want to hear every , . - \ or whatever. I think most of my blind friends feel that bbses are gone the way of the 300 baud modem, and no amount of attempting to explain about Synchronet and telnet boards seems to work. I do like the web interface for Synchronet, with IE and Jaws it is fairly easy to log on, do messages, files, and other stuff except doors. I have Slackware 10.1 linux running on another box, and that uses a screen reader called Speakup, http://linux-speakup.org which is a set of kernel patches. It's a console application which means you can have speech available to you from boot-up to power down. In fact, I often telnet into a bbs with my Linux machine because speakup seems better at ignoring extended ascii Now if you want to see something really cool, check out http://www.zonebbs.com . this is run by a bunch of blind people and I don't know who does their web stuff, but it's a fully accessible web interface with voice chat and a bunch of other stuff. Anyway, TW, think I'll go and telnet into your board and have me a look around. Greenwood Bbs Lake Placid, NY telnet://greenwoodbbs.homeunix.com http://greenwoo.synchro.net:8080 --- þ Synchronet þ Greenwood, Lake Placid, NY, telnet://greenwoo.synchro.net .