Subj : Re: Win4lin To : Mweeby From : Time Warrior Date : Mon Oct 03 2005 03:49 pm From Newsgroup: alt.bbs.synchronet To: Mweeby Re: Re: Win4lin By: Mweeby to Time Warrior on Mon Oct 03 2005 06:38 pm > To: Time Warrior > "Time Warrior" wrote in message > news:433AE23E.33331.altsync@malkaviabbs.com... > > From Newsgroup: alt.bbs.synchronet > > To: Sam Alexander Re: Win4lin By: Sam Alexander to Time Warrior > > on Wed Sep 28 2005 03:56 pm > > > First let me apologize... I didn't mean for my post to sound crude or > > > disrespectful. If you have a stable Windows box running and your > stuff is > > > crankin' along nicely, you're correct, that's the solution for you. > Linux > > > does take time to learn and it's way of doing even basic things like > mounted > > > drives and devices is completely different from Windows, which means > it's > > > not only learning how to use Linux but also learning how linux itself > works. > > > You're 100% right, Linux isn't for everyone. I guess I find myself > pushing > > > it because I have used Windows (and MS-DOS before that), Linux, and > OSX > > > concurrently for a good number of years, so I see the pros and cons > of all > > > these operating systems. For me I see so many advantages to a > Unix-style OS > > > over Windows because of this, but again, that's me. Everyone has > their own > > > experiences and views. > > Linux is for everyone you just can't expect people to learn it in the > same > > way. You see, for some things, GUI is more efficient than the command > prompt. > > For other things, command prompt is more efficient than a GUI. To say > one or > > the other is better is like saying sight is better than sound (or vice > versa) > > or that touch is superior to taste (or vice versa). > > Linux didn't used to be for everyone however in rescent times the newer > > distros have become alot more flexible and tollerant allowing people to > learn > > it in the ways they personally require being taught. > > With Linspire, other Linux Distros, Win4lin, OSX and Mac's long over due > > switching to Intel and a direcx equivelent being worked on -- in > combination > > with the increasing ineficiency of Windows, Micro$hafts blatant > disregard for > > it's customer base and Ballmer continuing to make a dick of himself -- > > Windows' days are numbered allowing Linux to finally step up to bat in > the > > main stream. > > As Linux becomes easier to use -- being a powerful OS by default i've no > > doubts in my mind that within the next 10 years or so, it will replace > and > > otherwise destroy what at that time will be concidered the "Forgotten > Bad > > Dream" of the rule of the "Microsoft Empire" under a shitty and unstable > > pethetic excuse for a glorified application that claimed to be an OS. > > (taken from: http://www.sunvv.com/english/article_3031.html) > > Webster's Dictionary definition of Windows > > Windows: n. > > 32 bit extensions and a graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit > > operating system originally coded for a 4 bit microprocessor, written by > a 2 > > bit company, that can't stand 1 bit of competition. > > > A personal analogy to this is I have a '55 Chevy I'm trying to > restore. I > > > know next to nothing about cars, so even simple tasks like changing > out the > > > brake pads and wheel cylinders is a show stopper for me even though > everyone > > > tells me it's simple. For me, who's never done this before, it's > very > > > intemediating, but for a pro it's cake. Linux is the same way... > most of > > > what I do on Linux is second nature, but for someone who's never used > it > > > before it's VERY intemidating and even simple tasks like setting-up > > > networking or mounting a CDROM or Floppy drive are hard. > > > So I totally see it from your prespective, and my apologies for the > way my > > > post came across. Rob and Deuce have written an awesome distro of > Sync for > > It's ok. No worries. If I was offended, you'd know :-) > > > Linux, and I just hate seeing a handfull of Linux boards listed on > the Sync > > > BBS list. I can't help but advocate it when I can, but I'll be more > mindful > > Hence one of my reasons towards my overall goal. Before i can switch to > the > > Linux version of Synchronet I think it would be wise to first know how > to use > > Linux efficiently. Don't you? :-) > > > BBS list. I can't help but advocate it when I can, but I'll be more > mindful > > > next time I want to throw this out there :) > > I don't know but i've heard Sync/Win32 under Win4lin is a real bitch to > get > > working right if it can be made to work right at all. However, i've > never > > turned down a challenge that I know I am capable of possibly winning :-) > > With help, I'm sure I can bitchslap Win4lin into cooperating with > > Synchronet. > > -- .---------------------------------------------------------------. > > | [TiME WaRRiOR] aka [Dave Kelso] AIM: Twar782 | +o Malkavia BBS | > I agree completely regarding the differences in learning. I have my > bbs running under Windows, and it's running well. I have begun to > look at setting it up under Linux, but I'm so baffled and confused, I > think I'll put that project aside for the moment. I think part of the > problem stems from the fact that I know next to nothing about the use and > nomenclature of Cvs, and DM makes frequent refverences to it in the > sbbsunix.txt document. I have been running Slackware Linux on another > computer and have dabbled off-and-on with this particular distribution > since about version 7. One of the things that drew me to Linux in the > first place, as a blind user, is the fact that I didn't have to rely > on sighted assistance to install it. It can be installed from the > ground up with speech support throughout the whole process. In > Windows, speech applications, such as screen readers, can only be > installed in fully working installations. As for using Linux itself, > it seems to depend on a variety of factors. If you want to browse > the web and read your mail and news, you have several applications > for doing this, some more easy to learn than others. Admittedly > with windows, installers are nice and convenient, but even in Linux > I've gotten used to the idea of unpacking the tarball, going into > the directory, finding the Readme or Install file, reading it and > following the steps to complete the installation. Unfortunately > it seems to me that setting up Synchronet under linux requires > a level of knowledge that I have not yet obtained. Also, it's not > like this must happen right away since this is running quite nicely > under windows, but it is one of those projects I'll persue over the > winter. This is a perfect example. I had no idea you were blind and blind BBS'ers always amaze me with their ability to completely conqure their imparement. They learn differently, which again proves my point. However, lack of "sight" isn't the only imparement a person can have. Different peoples minds learn in different ways by default. A "physical" difference such as lacking the ability to proccess visual data, is yet another monkey wrench to throw into the learning proccess that clearly makes my point. I personally can learn most things on my own. Some things require that i be taught by someone. Others I know I can never wrap my mind around. For what I can teach myself, my learning proccess has a few rules that are set in place. Who set them? Genetics? God? The universe? I have no idea. All I know is that they are there. I learn better via audio which is why I am good at creating music and a much better speaker than I am a typer when it comes to making or understanding a concept. For learning computers and other things, this also means that even if a phone conversation isn't possible, examples work well for me. Linspire provides a very easy GUI with craploads of audio / visual / textual documentation and is easy to use. This has also made it easier for me to learn the linux command prompt. I've known how to manuver through it for quite some time however only basic knowledge. I can change directories and do lists and all of the basic things that a more knowldgable novice might know about a DOS Prompt. Installing apps has been hard to learn however so far I have managed to install 3 linux apps successfully. GiMP is giving me some shit though when I try to compile it. In the same light, if something as simple as GiMP (the linux equivelent of Photoshop) is giving me problems and would give most linux n00bs problems, then something as powerful as Synchronet Linux would be a nightmare for me. I need to learn linux itself better before i can venture into something as powerful as the linux version of Synchronet. The telnet end of my BBS REQUIRES ansi so I wish text to speech readers were more intelligent and had options to ignore ANSI codes and higher ascii chrs. If you tried to telnet to my BBS I can guarentee it would confuse you. The matrix login alone would likely drive your text to speech reader nuts. This is also why synchweb is a great idea for people in your possition. As far as i've been able to see, text to speech apps have no issues with HTML. Graphical links are easily used when ALT="" codes are in place. As for being blind -- if you've been blind all your life and if they ever find a cure for blindness within your lifetime (they have developed electronic eyes that interface directly with the brain and work as your eyes should -- however at this point the proceedure is far too risky to be used practically -- the chance of brain damage is higher than the chance of restoring your sight, at this point) trust me when I say that seeing for the first time -- as beautiful as sight is, will at first, scare the piss out of you. Think of hearing as our universe and sight as being thrust into a universe where the known laws of physics do not apply and have a completely different set of laws. A perception that is so different and so forgin compared to hearing -- that to someone who is seeing for the first time after being blind -- it would be like hearing with your sense of smell, smelling with your sense of hearing and feeling pleasure and pain using the perception of your taste buds in your tounge. It would be hard to get used to but trust me when i say it would also be as beautiful as it is horrifying. Think of the beauty of sight as the best song you've ever heard and the horrors of sight as the most crappy song you've ever heard. -- .---------------------------------------------------------------. | [TiME WaRRiOR] aka [Dave Kelso] AIM: Twar782 | +o Malkavia BBS | | www : synchsupport.net - malkaviabbs.com - xpresit.net | | www$: josephsjewelersonline.com - preferedinsurance.com | | @: time.warrior@malkaviabbs. com | \______________________________________________________________/ --- Synchronet 3.12a-Win32 NewsLink 1.76 * Malkavia - Chicago, IL - telnet://malkaviabbs.com --- Synchronet 3.13b-Win32 NewsLink 1.83 .