Subj : Re: Facts or Fiction To : Dennis Haddox From : Scott Adams Date : Wed Jul 09 2003 04:29 am -=> Quoting Dennis Haddox to Scott Adams <=- DH> Part I Sounds like a TV of the week... SA> First let me start this by saying me and you dpearted SA> the SA> ways relatively easy going and straight forward. I SA> even SA> as far as a couple months ago ICQed you to say hi and SA> such SA> and you were cordial. I enjoyed your stay In SA> AdventureNet SA> as a poster above all else. I was saddened to see you SA> leave. DH> DH> Thanks Scott, I have nothing against you. It is not your fault DH> that your fault that you turned over the reigns of your games DH> to a blundering idiot. Well I do take full responsiblity in it since we are both LCs though as you know my role is lessened. I also disagree with mark being an idiot. His experience is far more to trust than yours I'm afraid. Mark = Runs leagues You = Never run a league.. I would tend to weigh more than the other by simple default. Nothing personal just experience means alot to me. SA> Up to this point I actually had some thought deep in SA> the SA> back of my head that you may be right on the cheating SA> before SA> but then I see your posts attacking 3 or 4 leagues SA> here. DH> DH> Your admission of the possibility of me being right shows DH> me that you are at least intelligent enough to realize that. DH> Including all 3 leagues in my outrage on allowing this cheating DH> to go on and the way the LC's handle it has been brewing for DH> quite a long time now. The first league that I experienced DH> this was the one that Hoover runs and that has been quite DH> a while ago hasn't it? I have been a rebel against cheaters for DH> a long time now and nothing ever changes. The cheating DH> goes on and the LC reacts to the charges in the same fashion. DH> This most recent escapade was apparently the final amount DH> of pressure needed before the volcano erupted. But you gotta understand that thin shred of doubt vanished when I saw all these posts and the amount of leagues you accuse of cheating. To me that tells me there might be more involved. I'm not saying you here but in the past those who tend to do such things are sore losers and just cna't play well. I suck at the BRE/FE games so would if i had the ego and was bored enough accuse everyoen of cheating everytime i lost as well. The problem is you only accuse. Not one shred of proof has been shown. The burdern of proof is sadly in your hands not ours. SA> I've been doing bbsing and sysoping for over 18 years. SA> I've seen it all and heard it all folks just like you SA> come SA> and go all the time. Its not even funny anymore. SA> I've run EWOG II now for 10 years (6/1/03 was year 10) SA> and ran AdventureNet for 10 years (this coming SA> september). SA> I ran EWOG I for some 6-7 years before that with other SA> leagues SA> in those very early days of bbsdom. SA> I know what I'm doing and being a programmer also SA> believe SA> I am qualified enough to know the technics of problems SA> with SA> cheating and such. I can examine patterns and analyze SA> situations. SA> You may not think so but i have the experience to back SA> up SA> my statements, do you? DH> DH> Yes Scott, I have as much experience as you do. The only DH> difference is that I have never taken much of an interest in DH> programming. My end has been hardware and software DH> configurations. If any programming troubleshooting needed DH> done, I always let my oldest son do that since that is what DH> he was interested in. You've run a board since 1983 as well? Cool. Didn't realize that. Then theres running a league to not running a league expereince issue. SA> Yes your a sysop for many years but where is your game SA> league? SA> You say you have better things to do? Fine. You have SA> time SA> to yell at folks though. I contend before you accuse SA> folks SA> of things you run your OWN network and your OWN game SA> league. DH> DH> I have too many things to do. I barely have enough time to keep DH> the bbs current. I don't think that running my own league would DH> make much of a difference anyway. We have discussed in the DH> past how I would do it if it were up to me. You know I am DH> fairly radical and said the ways I suggested were too strict. DH> I didn't think so but I guess we will never know because I have DH> no desire to run a league and those that do, don't have the balls. But you see that's ...well hypocritical. You complain about leagues but do nothing about it. To see how didficult the job is truly and how well cheating is hard to prove. Until you walk in those shoes your accusations are a bit depressed in their value. You have time to do all these posts and the accusations but not try and see how it really is. You say no one has the spine to run a 'good' league yet you won't. A character in batman comes to mind here Two-Face. SA> Michael Frater was a good member just like you. He SA> claimed DH> DH> I do not wish to rehash the Michael Frater scenario. You and Mark DH> had said that you had thoroughly investigated that allegation and DH> could find no wrongdoing. I believed you and the way Michael DH> had no rebuttal on your findings led me to believe that perhaps DH> he did not have a valid claim. DH> Anyway, what was involved in that and what was involved in DH> the case that I had pointed out were totally different. Maybe but it just shows how things in perspective are not always the right thing 'seen'. In his case we didn't even touch the subject of his family members playing in the games like his league which we had no proof but we let it. Other leagues would've saw that as dupe accounts and did some bickering. We gave the benefit of the doubt and the funny thing they claim the cheating. Ironic. SA> us and the evidence at hand. How does it look when his SA> son SA> adn others from his own board seem to oddly have the SA> same SA> period of plays and attacks and even in some cases same SA> "style" of messages. Hmmm...is this multiple accounts SA> from the same person. I personally think there might SA> have SA> been. Could I prove it? Not really. DH> DH> No, you can't prove anything by that type of conjecture. Which is part of the whole problem. .... AD&D Mistake #29: Vandalizing the wizard's guild --- Fringe BBS * Origin: EWOG II - The Fringe - 904-733-1721 (1:112/91) .