Subj : Re: Back again To : Richard M. Meic From : John Wilson Date : Tue Jul 10 2001 08:49 am -=> RICHARD M. MEIC wrote to JOHN WILSON <=- -> -> Hi! This echo has been fallow for quite some time...glad you RMM> started -> in with something to chew on :-) RMM> Or is that someONE to chew on? Ideas are my meat, not people :-) -> I believe logic is important but not all inclusive in human RMM> apprehension -> of the universe (as best as he is able) RMM> Logic does seem to me to be the foundation of the equasion. Truth is found it beauty: art, poetry, feelings of awe and understanding: religion and other non-logical sources. Not to demean it's importantance of course, merely to observe that it is not man's exclusive tool toward understanding (`truth')... -> "O" is the art of Observation -> -> Noted throught history as being distorted, misintrepreted, and -> in my view a suspicious but necessary adjumct to life... RMM> Observation cannot be ignored. It all begins in observation. I think observation also is important. Observations are corrected over time and there's some truth in the saying that `believing is seeing'; an all-to-often human process. -> , "E" is the inconstant of -> RMM> Emotion -> -> I have no idea of what you mean here. RMM> Emotion is not a constant, it varies in aspect and degree and is RMM> unpredictable. Therefore emotion must be removed. Removed? I do believe that your `therefore' is not logical :-) Emotion is a constituant element of human nature: one cannot `remove'it and remain human. Pure reason has been justly criticized (Kant) :-) Besides that: You say it is unpredictable. Then wouldn't you say it importsnt that it be studied that it might better be understood? RMM> Posturing (IMO) has a firm foundation in hubris, and is usually RMM> done in preparation to unnecessarily abuse another. I'm sure any abuse I get from you will be *necessary* :-) -> I, for example, find that I posture (when I do deem to posture), with a -> cetain grace and elan that causes recipients to have tears well up in -> admiration ... RMM> that was ... beautiful... RMM> ;o) Don't get too emoional ! :-) ! -> RMM> 5. I question everything without fear of undesirable answers. -> -> Why someone would fear answers undesirable or otherwise is somewhat of -> a mystery to me...but ok. RMM> Don't tell me that a man of your years has never encountered one RMM> of the many out there that fear some types answers. I can't recall any such encounter. Anger and disbelief, often. No fear. -> RMM> 6. I attempt to tread where other minds rarely go and I fear no -> RMM> avenue of -> RMM> inquiry. -> -> Ah. Do you really feel that you *have* trod `where other minds rarely -> go'? RMM> I stated that I "attempt" to tread where other minds rarely go. -> That's a pretty sweeping statement. RMM> Nope. Yep. To indicate that you have knowledge of `where other minds rarely go' may indicate a paucity of associations :-) Want to give indications or examples of where other minds rarely go? -> Why much philosophy have you read? RMM> Before I answer that I must first ask if you feel that one has to RMM> read philosophy in order to be a philosopher? Is reading enough? A basic essential: to see `where other minds have gone'... Grist for that mill which is your mind... To your second question, no, it is certainly not enough. A springboard is not where one rests.... -> As for me: I'm an old fart, fairly well read, an excellent memory and -> fairly comfortable with my beliefs... RMM> Yet, is being well read and having a good memory all that makes a RMM> philosopher a wise man, an insightful and intelligent man? Certainly not! I make no claim to any of that. (Those are mainly subjective apprasals, by others.) All I lay claim to, and you will be the final judge, is that my memory and well-read-old-fartishness makes me... Interesting. :-) RMM> I RMM> would answer a resounding "no". There is much more to all those RMM> than simply knowing what the classical philosophers said, being RMM> around for a long time and remembering stuff. Quite right! *Much* more. RMM> Sorry, you'll have to allow me to rant a little: RMM> Because I can program in 6 programming lanuages and have a degree RMM> in programming, am I then a programmer? No. I would demur. Sure you are. I am a sunday-afternoon BASIC programmer... RMM> I am a programmer RMM> because I have something that most who go through the course do RMM> not. True of most people. Not to say that you are not unique---like everyone else. This thing I have makes me more a philosopher than those RMM> with Phds in philosophy. Glad you know the word "hubris" :-) How many Ph.D.'s have you examined? RMM> This one thing has also gotten me into RMM> more trouble here with more religious people than I care to count RMM> (you know some of them, they are no longer here). This one thing RMM> also makes me a writer of fiction. And this "thing" is? A direct apprehension of "truth"? -> What shall we argue about first? :-) RMM> Why not all of it? RMM> BTW, did you want this echo to liven up a bit? You know that I RMM> have a talent for such things. >;o) This echo, as I mentioned previously has been fallow for some time; I remember only Frank Massingale and Todd Henson as onetime participants. I don't recall seeing you. I welcome the interchange. Cheers! .... Caution: Some readers may experience drowsiness. ___ MultiMail/MS-DOS v0.32 --- Maximus 3.01 * Origin: The BandMaster, Vancouver, B.C., Canada (1:153/7715) .