Subj : The universe
To   : JOSEPH VOIGT
From : TODD HENSON
Date : Tue Oct 31 2000 12:35 am

>  >> Ok. As Time itself began when the Universe did, yes the Universe
>  >> has `been around' forever. But forever is not over yet :-), so the
>  >> Universe
> 
>  TH> If the space-time continuum had a *beginning*, then time in our
>  TH> universe is not infinite.
> 
> He didn't say it was.  Why don't you READ what he says?  When the universe 
ends
> (if it does) then time also ends... forever (all of time) is over. Get over 
it
> already and TRY to understand it.
> 
>  TH> By the very fact that you speak of a *beginning* of this universe
>  TH> implies a reference to a temporal context that is above our
>  TH> continuum.
> 
> No, it doesn't.  Why is this so difficult for you to grasp?  Time is 
intrinsic
> to the universe.  -Temporal- implies TIME.  The beginning of time is 
synonymous
> with the beginning of the universe... spacetime is the fabric of the 
universe. 
> You are NOT permitted to imply a reference above a continuum when none is
> needed and it is logically absurd to do so anyway. "Beginning" in the context
> of time is nothing more than a point of origin. You're being silly to somehow
> think that there just MUST exist a reference outside of time to be able to
> consider the origin of time.  LOL.

You assume that other temporal realities cannot exist outside of our own.
For example, some 
scientists (mostly in the field of as far as I have read) believe that
there are multiple universes, 
each having it's own expanse of space-time. The laws of time may even be
different from ours, 
according to some. Either way, you seem stuck on this idea that any
reference to a temporal 
reality outside of THIS continuum MUST be false, which is silly, even by
scientific theories. 
Clearly if science theorizes the existence of other universes, where all
possible outcomes of 
each situation are played out according to some quantum theories, then it
is not so irrational to 
think of other temporal contexts that are separate from the continuum that
we happen to 
inhabit.

And, look at the language you are using. You speak of a beginning of the
universe. If the 
universe had a beginning, then it is perfectly rational to wonder about
what came before it. What 
was it that caused the Big Bang in the first place? That is not an
irrational question at all, and it 
is not irrational to understand.

Your rebuttals aren't sufficient.


>  TH> So no, what you said still doesn't show that the universe was around
>  TH> "forever", meaning without beginning or end.
> 
> Yes, it certainly DOES show that the universe was around forever, but the
> second part of your statement is incorrect.  Forever, in this context, MEANS
> -all of time-, it does NOT mean without beginning or end (that's a judeoxian
> dogma).  Take off your bibliolater hat for a change and really THINK about


Ah, so noone ever thought in terms of "forever" (as in without start or
finish) besides the 
Judeochristians? Are you sure you want to make that claim? 

You prove my opinion of you - you are on an anti-Bible inquisition. You
equate the idea of infinity 
as I have used it with Judeochristianity. You are on a petty crusade to
spew hate towards 
Judeochristianity. Therefore, any ideas which involve infinity must be
viciously attacked.

Boy, what a mind.


> that.  The universe exists forever (all of time) from beginning to end.  When
> the universe ends, time ends... and "forever" goes POOF! Understand now?
> 
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