Subj : Re: The Game To : Todd Henson From : Joshua Lee Date : Sun Oct 29 2000 02:05 am -=> TODD HENSON wrote to JOSHUA LEE <=- > It was humorous, and I didn't really expect a response. > > TH> Jesus never made a mistatement. Nor did he make false prophecies. > > He only had four conflicting biographies. ;-) TH> Yes yes, we've been around that block before. Not true. I'm sure that on HOLYSMOKE they can produce, as they have before, volumes of evidence if you're interested. I'm not interested in doing that; especially not here, on the philosophy echo. > TH> do was to allow the spiritual nature of God's law to be expressed > TH> without the framework of earthly legalism. > > What's so bad about obeying a law? TH> Read on... I did read on, and you did not explain it; you never touched the subject. > TH> Let's take a look at the two types of laws - earthly (physical), and > TH> spiritual. Earthly laws do not, for the most part, care about the > TH> contents of the heart. > > TH> Spiritual law is different. It DOES care about the heart, but it > TH> doesn't have it's ultimate consequences enforced here on earth. > > The Izbitzer Rebbe and others, especially in the Chasidic and Mussar > traditions, talk about one's thoughts and heart and the importance > of keeping them pure. However, we don't believe that eternal torture > awaits all that had the wrong religion. TH> Drop all the anti-Christian urges to demonize, just for a second. Don't TH> jump the gun. It's not anti-xtian, Zoastrianism and Mithraism teach this too. It's that form of theology that truely does the "demonizing"; as it says that the followers of any other religion are to dwell with the demons. Due to this, Zoastrianism, xtianity, and Islam all justified the most horrific of crimes against humanity. I consider it to be a pernicious doctrine. Luckily, many xtians don't believe it today; or believe it in a highly modified form, such as yourself. TH> But besides, I was informed in the Judaica echo by someone that a TH> disrespect or disbelief in TH> the Oral Torah IS something that can earn a person a hot eternity, and He didn't say hot eternity, for the second time, it was a Jew (an informed and unassimilated Jew) *loosing his portion* ofthe World to Come. (A rare event, due to conflicting passages, perhaps not an occurence at all.) This is a lot different than a "hot eternity", incidentally. Even the irredemably wicked (which are few in number) are reduced to "ashes under the feet of tzaddikim". TH> that would include every Christian, would it not? The righteous of the gentiles, who obey the 7 mitzvos of Bnai Noach, have a portion in the World to Come. It's a lot easier for you guys in a sense. All you have to do is be civilized. TH> Maybe I'm wrong, but I may have brought this TH> to your attention before, TH> and I do remember some disagreeing with that claim, but I don't TH> remember a decent answer being given. We discussed it on another echo. I explained what Jews believe, and how Jews don't believe that. You insist now that they do. I have no inclination towards refuting strawmen of your own imagination. Especially strawmen that now amount to your very own anti-semetic propaganda of "secret Jewish beliefs". TH> I can't remember it if was you or not. It was me and another on the JUDAICA echo; where this is on-topic. > Rabbi Hillel (a sage who lived before J.) said, "What is hateful to > yourself, do not do to others. This is the Torah, the rest is commentary. > Now go and study!" Note that he said "now go and study", once one TH> Ah yes, that is the quote. Thanks. Mesectes Shabbos, I recall daf 31, but perhaps it's 30. Of course, "love thy neighbor as thyself" is in Leviticus; which Rabbi Akiva (who lived a generation after J.) said "this is a great principle of the Torah." > TH> However, the reliance on earthly law was never God's intention. > > The Torah is not earthly. TH> I was referring to a system of earthly enforcement, as per the various TH> crimes and sentences in the Torah. The Torah commands the existence of courts, the accepting of their decisions, and going by the majority decision. There's nothing that is "more earthly" or "less earthly" in the religion of the Torah concerning it's commandments. A Jew is commanded to do his divine service in this world, or why would we be sent here at all? > TH> The spiritual core of what Jesus taught was the same spiritual lessons > TH> as the > TH> Mosaic law, but that the new covt was what happened when the law of the > TH> spirit was removed from it's earthly Mosaic sheath. > > Let history show how much your messiah ussured in the age of peace. TH> That sounded like something motivated by pure spite. Ignorance As Bob Eyer would say, "point of privledge". JBL .... What is mind? No matter! What is matter? Never mind! - Homer S. ___ MultiMail/Win32 v0.37 --- Maximus/2 3.01 * Origin: Juxtaposition BBS, Telnet:juxtaposition.dynip.com (1:167/133) .