Subj : Re: Extent of the Torah
To   : JOHN WILSON
From : TODD HENSON
Date : Mon Oct 30 2000 05:20 am

>  >  TH> And how long has the universe been around? Forever? If so, then
>  >  TH> it would already have had
>  >  TH> enough time to get to know itself. If it hasn't been around
>  >  TH> forever, then where did it come from,
>  >  TH> and who made it? A momma universe?
>  >
>  >  My `opinion' didm't/dosn't address that. A Momma Universe. Now THERE'S
>  >  a concept....
> 
> 
>  TH> Maybe your opinion *should*.
> 
>  Ok. As Time itself began when the Universe did, yes the Universe has
>  `been around' forever. But forever is not over yet :-), so the Universe


If the space-time continuum had a *beginning*, then time in our universe is
not infinite. By the 
very fact that you speak of a *beginning* of this universe implies a
reference to a temporal 
context that is above our continuum. So no, what you said still doesn't
show that the universe 
was around "forever", meaning without beginning or end.


>  hasn't had enough time to get to know itself. Thats why we exist.


Well, at least that's ONE clear point that might be established - that the
universe has not 
existed for an infinite length of time. But, what makes you think the
universe doesn't know 
itself? How long does it take? 


>  If my opinion *were* well thought out, it would indicate something about the
>  collective unconscious attempting to become one with the collective
>  consciousness....   :-)


Is that so? Are you saying that your opinion is *not* well thought? If so,
why not?


> 
>  >  TH> What would lead a person to think that space-time has
>  >  TH> intelligence in the first place?
>  >
>  >  The presence of intelligence in the universe.
> 
> 
>  TH> That doesn't do much to really answer the question
> 
>  Sure it does. Succiently.
> 
>  The Universe IS space-time. That within it, intelligence exists.
>  (is developing).


To say that intelligence exists within it (as in, it contains living
creatures) is no where NEAR 
saying that the actual continuum IS intelligent, which is exactly what is
meant by saying the 
universe is conscious. That's like saying that ocean water is itself is
alive because it contains 
living creatures. Or, that the ocean is intelligent because it contains
intelligent humans who are 
always in it at any given time.  So, which is it?


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