Subj : EUROPE                                                   [2]
To   : TODD HENSON
From : Frank Masingill
Date : Thu Oct 26 2000 02:59 am

 TH> Eric Voegelin, in one of his volumes, remarks that "things

 TH> > do not happen in the astrophysical universe; the
 TH> > astrophysical universe together with all things in it
 TH> > happens in God."

 TH> > Let us agree that he is using the Platonic-Christian
 TH> > symbolism, "God" as the "Ground of Existence (Being), and
 TH> > that he wishes to be understood as assigning ultimate
 TH> > mystery and divinity to this ultimate reality so far as Man
 TH> > is concerned, again taking these words as with ALL language
 TH> > elements to be symbolism with beginnings in the minds of men
 TH> > at points in history, as "quality" and "quantity", e.g.
 TH> > begin with Cicero as far as known.

 TH> > I am attempting to discover what it is with which you truly
 TH> > replace this symbol and related symbols and the differences
 TH> > in meaning thereby intended.

 TH> > Thus, in that sentence quoted from Voegelin, with what word
 TH> > or phrase would you replace the last word?  Instead of "God"
 TH> > would it be "the inflated ego of man."  I'm guessing you DO
 TH> > have difficulty with a phrase like that although I'm not
 TH> > sure why.  Would the replacement be an abstract entity like
 TH> > "Progress" with the abstraction, despite Whitehead's
 TH> > warning, concretized to illustrate all that Man can
 TH> > accomplish provided Man gives up searches for any truth of
 TH> > existence beyond HIMSELF that serve only as distraction.
 TH> > This, after all, IS the center of our debate, is if not.

         TH> Eric Voegelin, in one of his volumes, remarks that "things

 TH> > do not happen in the astrophysical universe; the
 TH> > astrophysical universe together with all things in it
 TH> > happens in God."

 TH> > Let us agree that he is using the Platonic-Christian
 TH> > symbolism, "God" as the "Ground of Existence (Being), and
 TH> > that he wishes to be understood as assigning ultimate
 TH> > mystery and divinity to this ultimate reality so far as Man
 TH> > is concerned, again taking these words as with ALL language
 TH> > elements to be symbolism with beginnings in the minds of men
 TH> > at points in history, as "quality" and "quantity", e.g.
 TH> > begin with Cicero as far as known.

 TH> > I am attempting to discover what it is with which you truly
 TH> > replace this symbol and related symbols and the differences
 TH> > in meaning thereby intended.

 TH> > Thus, in that sentence quoted from Voegelin, with what word
 TH> > or phrase would you replace the last word?  Instead of "God"
 TH> > would it be "the inflated ego of man."  I'm guessing you DO
 TH> > have difficulty with a phrase like that although I'm not
 TH> > sure why.  Would the replacement be an abstract entity like
 TH> > "Progress" with the abstraction, despite Whitehead's
 TH> > warning, concretized to illustrate all that Man can
 TH> > accomplish provided Man gives up searches for any truth of
 TH> > existence beyond HIMSELF that serve only as distraction.
 TH> > This, after all, IS the center of our debate, is if not.

 TH> Egads. I think you hit the nail squarely on the head.
 TH> Especially with the last comments to how he treats "Progress".
 TH> It's like an abstraction that is a more comfortable
 TH> replacement for God, one that can be related to in easy,
 TH> plain, numeric terms, rather than in spiritual terms.

        I'll wait for Bob's response.  All you are doing is
repeating some of my words without a context.  

Frank

--- PPoint 2.07
 * Origin: Maybe in 5000 years (1:396/45.12)

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