Subj : Re: The Game To : JOSHUA LEE From : TODD HENSON Date : Thu Oct 26 2000 08:50 pm > SGID: 1:167/133.0 39f967c6 > -=> TODD HENSON wrote to JOSHUA LEE <=- > > > FM> as if Christianity ruled the horizons of the world and, for the > > > > No comment. > > > > FM> atheist, ruining those horizons UNTIL the positivist came along to > > FM> make the correction!!!! > > > > Y'all tried to make a "correction" 2,000 years ago, and we're still > > fightin' about it today. ;-) > > TH> A "correction"? Well, I guess it depends on how you look at that. I > TH> know the intent of the comment was humorous, but it did bring to > > It was humorous, and I didn't really expect a response. > > TH> Jesus never made a mistatement. Nor did he make false prophecies. > > He only had four conflicting biographies. ;-) Yes yes, we've been around that block before. Not true. > TH> do was to allow the spiritual nature of God's law to be expressed > TH> without the framework of earthly legalism. > > What's so bad about obeying a law? Read on... > TH> Let's take a look at the two types of laws - earthly (physical), and > TH> spiritual. Earthly laws do not, for the most part, care about the > TH> contents of the heart. > > TH> Spiritual law is different. It DOES care about the heart, but it > TH> doesn't have it's ultimate consequences enforced here on earth. > > The Izbitzer Rebbe and others, especially in the Chasidic and Mussar > traditions, talk about one's thoughts and heart and the importance > of keeping them pure. However, we don't believe that eternal torture > awaits all that had the wrong religion. Drop all the anti-Christian urges to demonize, just for a second. Don't jump the gun. But besides, I was informed in the Judaica echo by someone that a disrespect or disbelief in the Oral Torah IS something that can earn a person a hot eternity, and that would include every Christian, would it not? Maybe I'm wrong, but I may have brought this to your attention before, and I do remember some disagreeing with that claim, but I don't remember a decent answer being given. I can't remember it if was you or not. > TH> nations. It is to the credit of Judaism (and religions influenced by > TH> Judaism) that these forms > TH> of worship are less widespread in the world today. This was the whole > TH> point! > > I agree, as I said before, Maimonidies and Nachmanidies considered > xtianity and Islam to have been part of god's plan in this way. > > TH> but there was a spiritual lesson being taught. In Judaica, someone > TH> quoted a rabbi to me, and he said something like how the golden rule > > Rabbi Hillel (a sage who lived before J.) said, "What is hateful to > yourself, do not do to others. This is the Torah, the rest is commentary. > Now go and study!" Note that he said "now go and study", once one > recieves the general principle (klal), it is a call to understand the > particulars. (prat) Ah yes, that is the quote. Thanks. > TH> However, the reliance on earthly law was never God's intention. It was > > The Torah is not earthly. I was referring to a system of earthly enforcement, as per the various crimes and sentences in the Torah. > TH> If you look past all the cultural differences and hostility between > TH> Christians and Jews (YES, both are guilty of harsh views of one > TH> another), then you will see that the core of what Jesus taught was the > TH> same as what the Law taught - fairness, hope for the oppressed and > TH> downtrodden, to love your neighbor, and to love God with all your being, > TH> to do His will, etc. > > What J. taught that was not new, that was good things and things we > agree on. What J. taught that was new, those were not such good things > for a Jew. I know. :-) We'll be disagreeing on this for sometime. :-) > TH> The spiritual core of what Jesus taught was the same spiritual lessons > TH> as the > TH> Mosaic law, but that the new covt was what happened when the law of the > TH> spirit was removed from it's earthly Mosaic sheath. > > Let history show how much your messiah ussured in the age of peace. That sounded like something motivated by pure spite. Ignorance definitely. You commit the horrible error of claiming that the truth of Jesus's message is somehow affected by the mistakes that others have made who were using his name as an excuse. That's such a basic error, it's laughable. I'm especially disappointed that you'd revert to such an attitude in light of all the (what I thought was) meaningful conversation we've had about this very topic in the past. If I wanted to go tit for tat, I could easily point out every instance of idolatry, incest, murder, stubbornness, and outright rejection of God's will that YOUR people have committed, even to the point of earning for themselves being slain and driven from their homeland by the empires like the Assyrians, Babylonians, etc. And your own scriptures attest to the fact that GOD let or caused these things to happen as punishment. And, if the situation were different, if Jews took hold of such power as the Catholic Church once did, we'd probably be complaining about the inquisitions that THEY committed. So, I'm surprised that for someone who would presume to ask ME about how familiar I am with philosophy, that same person would commit such glaring thought errors. And you presume that Jesus claimed that within this current age that his followers would usher in a world of peace in the first place. Jesus warned of wars and of those who claim to follow him but really don't. His kingdom was not one of earthly glory, where it's boundaries existed here on earth, but of a spiritual kingdom, who boundaries lie in the souls of the faithful, who would be at odds with the warlike ways of the world. You once told me about how you can't help seeing painful images in your head when you speak of Christianity. I think that bias may be more of an influential factor than you realize, causing you to ignore the soul-changing truth that Christ preached and choosing to see only those negative (exaggerated) factors that justify your ill feelings. It has caused you to completely miss the substance and the spirit of what I wrote. Whether we be Jew or Christian, I'm sure that's not what God intended. --- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v3.0pr4 * Origin: BBS Networks @ www.bbsnets.com 808-839-5016 (1:10/345) .