Subj : Extent of the Torah To : John Wilson From : Joseph Voigt Date : Sun Oct 22 2000 11:48 am Hello John, Sunday October 22 2000 01:25, John Wilson wrote to Joseph Voigt: JV>> ... my favorite and eminent physicist, Freeman Dyson,... JV>> He opines that there are JV>> three levels of Mind. Essentially, the Mind of the JV>> Universe, the Mind of Man, and the Mind of Lesser JV>> Creatures. JW> Pretty good! Yep, I found it quite interesting. IIRC, Michael Shermer, the author of Skeptic mag emailed the letter to all on the mailing list. Dyson's letter was a very good read and had me really thinking about it... and considering. But... I just couldn't make the same leap he could. :) JW> Of course, I have my doubts. Looks like Dyson JV>> got spiritual. :) JW> For shame! :) Ever read Dyson's _The Starship and the Canoe_? I read it years ago and that's when I became fascinated with his ideas. He's a great physicist and a great thinker as well. His ideas of Mind are fascinating, so who knows? He may be onto something. Just out of curiousity, have you ever read, _Godel, Escher, Bach_ by Hofstadter? That was the most amazing, eye-opening, and mind-expanding book I've ever read! What a great read. The author followed up with _The Mind's I_ and _Metamagical Themas_. All three are utterly fascinating. JW>> 2. It's Purpose is to understand itself. JV>> I have my doubts. I suspect it just IS. We give purpose JV>> to the universe and to ourselves because we CAN. JW> I admit its an opinion of convenience. It gives purpose without JW> the necessity of garnering money for stained-glass windows. JW> A neat trick...at least :-) Yes, it is. :) But one doesn't even need to carry it up one level when 'giving purpose to ourselves and the universe because we CAN' will suffice. :) Nothing extra needed. JW>> 3. All knowledge (of anything) is a part of that process. JV>> Still doubting... JW> ok.... JW>> 4. Which is justification enough for man's existance. JV>> Or, we justify our existence because we CAN. Because we JV>> can validate ourselves is enough justification for our JV>> existence. JW> Well I just consider it an opinion that validates the validation JW> of ourselves...no harm done...and beings to make more sense JW> when reading/studying Walker, a follower of Gurdjieff... Cool. No harm done. Validating the validation via opinion is neat... I just don't see a necessity for it is all. JW>> 5. There is more. Mankind is asleep, and awakening is possible. JW>> (Gurdjieffian stuff...I'm still learning about this...) JV>> Let me know when you wake up. :) JW> You wouldn't hear me... Nudge me then when you awake that I may too. JW>> 6. (On Gods, yer fave subject :-) ) : JV>> Actually, not my fave. My fave is SKEPTICISM. JW>> The Ultimate irony: we are Gods, and know it not. JV>> We are more gods than any other being so far discovered is, JV>> yep... JW>> Well. Anything so far worthy of your scorn? :-) JV>> No. One's opinions and beliefs don't bother me. It's JV>> people like Henson who claim to KNOW their beliefs about JV>> gods to be TRUE, and then ACT on those beliefs, that do JV>> bother me. JW> You had...uh...conversations in HOLYSMOKE? Not conversations with Todd in Holysmoke, no. He didn't converse there at all, as any exchange there with him was one-sided. He was actually a troll during the time he was there. JW> I've never been to that notorious place...and, from what i've heard, JW> wouldn't like it.... It's actually quite fun. :) You might enjoy it, but probably would want to monitor it for a little while to see how it plays for you. It's certainly not to everyone's taste, but it surely is to mine. :) Joe .... "I think not" said Descartes, and promptly disappeared. --- FastEcho 1.46 (reg) * Origin: The Danse Macabre - joevoigt.home.texas.net (1:387/638) .