Subj : Best OLMR for Windows To : George Lagergren From : Jasen Betts Date : Wed Nov 01 2000 10:56 pm WM>> Sorry, this won't answer your question; but I just have to WM>> comment on the above. I don't object to your request -- only your WM>> wording. I think you mean GUI vs. console mode. This is a pet WM>> peeve a mine -- a console-mode program _is_ still a "Windows" WM>> program; it's just not GUI. GL> William, doesn't the Intel 32-bit x86 CPU chips support BOTH GL> 32-bit protected mode for graphic mode and 32-bit protected mode GL> for text mode programming? yes, even under dos, but that's not the issue. GL> William, is the term a "console mode" app program just a fancy GL> name for a 32-bit protected mode app program working in (32-bit) GL> text modeof the OS? yes, "console mode" is microsoft's term for a program that needs windows but doesn't use the GUI stuff. GL> So in the "DOS box" within Windows 9x and beyond, the OS supports GL> the concept of using 32-bit text mode executable pgms and driver GL> pgms, right? I'm not sure about drivers. GL> Or can one really access or make use of Windows 9x's 32-bit GL> protected mode in text mode app pgms and driver pgms without FIRST GL> going into Windows 9x's graphic mode? basically, no. It's theoretically possible, but not with the stuff microsoft ships. GL> And do most of Windows 9x internal OS drivers and app pgms operate in GL> 32-bit graphic mode rather 32-bit text mode? I'd say yes, especially if you include the drivers which all seem to have GUI dialogues attached. GL> Questions: Will Microsoft ever turn the Windows OS into a GL> completely 100% based graphic mode OS? Thus leaving out any GL> support for text mode? probably not. Some tasks are just too painful with a gui. WM>> Most OSes support both types of programs; and Windows (once you WM>> get past the 16-bit versions) is no exception. But only in WM>> Windows are console apps regarded as second-class citizens -- as WM>> something less than "real" Windows programs. GL> IOW, most Windows 9x user folks feel using a text mode type of app GL> program is still using an old DOS character (text) based app pgm, GL> right? yes. WM>> When I first released a native Win32 port of MultiMail, it was WM>> sometimes accused of being "really a DOS program" -- or, as you WM>> put it, "DOS ported to Windows". Both descriptions are false. WM>> MultiMail is a Linux program, ported to generic Unix, DOS, OS/2, WM>> and Windows, in that order. :-) GL> So Multi Mail for Windows is two pgms - one is a graphic mode pgm GL> and one is a text (console app) mode pgm usable thru the Windows GL> "DOS Box", right? No. The 32 bit dos version is different to the 32 bit console mode version. (there is also a 16 bit dos version but last I heard it wasn't supported by william.) WM>> I suppose some of the confusion arises from the fact that DOS WM>> programs and Windows console-mode programs run in the same shell, WM>> which is unfortunately labelled with a big fat "MS-DOS" icon WM>> (even in NT, where the icon points to something quite different). WM>> But MS-DOS apps and Win32 console apps aren't the same, WM>> internally. They don't work in the same way, and don't have the WM>> same capabilities. Granted, the GL> So one thinks of the old DOS OS as a 16-bit real mode OS where as GL> a console app pgm makes use of a 32-bit protected mode OS, GL> correct? yes, but that's not the big difference. the big difference is that console mode applications can make use of some of the stuff windows does that dos doesn't, dos apps will run in the dos box but they usually miss out on the windows stuff (one of the more obvious things would be LFNs) GL> IOW, the OS/2 OS has two different processes to run either: 1.) a GL> 16-bit real mode (old DOS) text-based app pgm or 2.) a 32-bit GL> protected mode text based (console app) app pgm? No. OS/2 also supports 16 bit protected mode text based OS/2 programs and 32 bit dos apps (EG the dos versiomn of multimail), 16 bit windows apps. and a few other things... OS/2 was originally developed for the 80286, a 16 bit processor, but it's been overhauled by IBM. -=> Bye <=- --- * Origin: The answer to my fido addiction: a point (3:640/531.42) .