Subj : Best OLMR for Windows
To   : William Mcbrine
From : George Lagergren
Date : Tue Oct 31 2000 03:11 am

Topic:  Best OLMR for Windows?

-=> Quoting William Mcbrine to Shannon Talley <=-    10-31-00  10:30 

ST> reader made for windows (specifically windows/not DOS ported to
ST> Windows)

WM> Sorry, this won't answer your question; but I just have to comment on
WM> the above. I don't object to your request -- only your wording. I think
WM> you mean GUI vs. console mode. This is a pet peeve a mine -- a
WM> console-mode program _is_ still a "Windows" program; it's just not GUI.

    William, doesn't the Intel 32-bit x86 CPU chips support BOTH
    32-bit protected mode for graphic mode and 32-bit protected mode for
    text mode programming?

    William, is the term a "console mode" app program just a fancy name 
    for a 32-bit protected mode app program working in (32-bit) text
    modeof the OS?

    So in the "DOS box" within Windows 9x and beyond, the OS supports
    the concept of using 32-bit text mode executable pgms and driver
    pgms, right?

    Or can one really access or make use of Windows 9x's 32-bit protected 
    mode in text mode app pgms and driver pgms without FIRST going into 
    Windows 9x's graphic mode?
    
    And do most of Windows 9x internal OS drivers and app pgms operate
    in 32-bit graphic mode rather 32-bit text mode?

    Questions:  Will Microsoft ever turn the Windows OS into a completely
    100% based graphic mode OS?   Thus leaving out any support for
    text mode?

WM> Most OSes support both types of programs; and Windows (once you get
WM> past the 16-bit versions) is no exception. But only in Windows are
WM> console apps regarded as second-class citizens -- as something less
WM> than "real" Windows programs. 

    IOW, most Windows 9x user folks feel using a text mode type of
    app program is still using an old  DOS character (text) based app 
    pgm, right?

WM> When I first released a native Win32 port of MultiMail, it was
WM> sometimes accused of being "really a DOS program" -- or, as you put it,
WM> "DOS ported to Windows". Both descriptions are false. MultiMail is a
WM> Linux program, ported to generic Unix, DOS, OS/2, and Windows, in that
WM> order. :-) 

    So Multi Mail for Windows is two pgms - one is a graphic mode pgm and
    one is a text (console app) mode pgm usable thru the Windows "DOS
    Box", right?

WM> I suppose some of the confusion arises from the fact that DOS programs
WM> and Windows console-mode programs run in the same shell, which is
WM> unfortunately labelled with a big fat "MS-DOS" icon (even in NT, where
WM> the icon points to something quite different). But MS-DOS apps and
WM> Win32 console apps aren't the same, internally. They don't work in the
WM> same way, and don't have the same capabilities. Granted, the

    So one thinks of the old DOS OS as a 16-bit real mode OS where as
    a console app pgm makes use of a 32-bit protected mode OS, correct?

WM> differences are more obvious to a programmer than to an end-user... The
WM> distinction between native console apps and DOS programs is clearer in
WM> OS/2, partly because they use separate shells. (And in Unix, you can't
WM> even run DOS programs without invoking a special emulator.) 

    IOW, the OS/2 OS has two different processes to run either:
    1.) a 16-bit real mode (old DOS) text-based app pgm or 
    2.) a 32-bit protected mode text based (console app) app pgm?

WM> BTW, to Jim: I was just looking at the Offline Readers page, and I
WM> noticed that although you have OS/2 programs divided into "PM" and
WM> "text", there's no similar division for Windows -- only 3.1 vs. 9x vs.
WM> NT -- even though some of the Windows programs listed are console apps.
WM> Personally, I'd be inclined to combine the 9x and NT categories (are
WM> there really any that work in one and not the other?), and then split
WM> the combined group into console and GUI. At least then I might not get
WM> as many of those "it's really a DOS program" flames. ;-)

    And Jim could have a note on his web site that Windows OLMRs are 
    divided into graphic (GUI) mode or text (console) mode pgms.

.... "Scotty, beam me up another Blue Wave message."  31 Oct 00  12:14
___ Blue Wave/386 v2.30 [NR]

--- WtrGate+ v0.93.p9 sn 107
 * Origin: GratisNet: QWK/BW packets via email  (1:170/302)

.