Subj : Reality Check!
To   : Rachel Veraa
From : Michiel van der Vlist
Date : Sat Oct 05 2002 12:54 pm

Hello Rachel,

 MvdV>> Over here we do not like that system as it is confusing
 MvdV>> for the users. The sysops over here like to offer the users
 MvdV>> a set of echomail areas that cover popular topics without
 MvdV>> duplication.

 MvdV>> Duplicate echos are not in the interest of the users.

 RV> Kind of paternalistic of you to decide what is and what is
 RV> not in their interest, isn't it?

It is not me that decides what ios good for them. It is what the users 
themselve say.

 RV> In Zone 1, users prefer to decide for themselves what's in
 RV> their own interest.

Same here and what I hear from them, duplicate areas confuse them. That is not 
what I as a sysop say, that is what the users over here say.

 MvdV>> have a problem, want to ask a question or have a discussion
 MvdV>> about something it is in their interest that they can find
 MvdV>> all interested in the same in one and only one area. When
 MvdV>> they have a problem related to pointing, it is good to know
 MvdV>> that they can probably find the answer in POINTS.028. It is in
 MvdV>> nobodies interest if they have to wade through POINTS.028,
 MvdV>> POINTS.NED, POINTS.BNL, POINTS.HOL, HOLLAND.POINTS and DUTCHPOINTS.

 RV> But in practice that doesn't happen.

In practise it /does/ happen. Not with the example above, because as I said, 
here in R28 we do not fancy multiple areas wuth the same topic. But users do 
get confused when they see an area HAM and an area AMATEUR _RADIO...

 RV> dissatisfied user creates a new echo, either everybody
 RV> migrates to the new one and the original dries up, or the
 RV> new one is ignored and dries up by itself.

Or they both dry up because when the users are divided, the flow in both areas 
drops below critical mass while when combined the area would still be viable.

 RV> In either case only one -- the one users prefer -- survives.
 RV> If both echoes attract enough of a following to survive, it
 RV> indicates that there's sufficient difference between them,
 RV> and sufficient interest in each that there was a real need
 RV> for two echoes all along.

That's the theory. The users here see it differently.

 RV> The whole point of working on an echo conference -- either
 RV> as a moderator or as a distributor -- is to serve the
 RV> people who use it, not to dictate to them.

Exactly my sentiments.

Strange however how the percievement of what constitutes dictatorship can be 
one hundred percent the opposite across the pond.

Your notion that a moderator /ownes/ his echo, can not be recalled and the only 
way to get rid of him/her is to start one's own area is perceived as 
dictatorial over here. Not to mention the Talibanic system that hold the 
distribution in it's grip.

We have an echmail policy that allows for the impeachment of rouge moderators 
by /elected/ echomail coordinators. We call that freedom....

Cheers, Michiel

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 * Origin: Moderator Holland.sysop, Points.028 & PointKoord.Eur (2:280/5555)

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