Subj : Check yer powder and
To   : Dale Shipp
From : Michiel van der Vlist
Date : Wed Oct 02 2002 03:02 pm

Hi Dale,

 MVDV>> But Ward /stated/ that I did not quote him out of context!

 DS> Not true.   He said that there was not much more than had
 DS> been said,

Which is equivalent to saying I did not quote out of context.

 DS>   but he refused to state the context of the message you
 DS> quoted -- as you have also done.

I could show you the rest of the message but I am sure it will not satisfy you. 
If Ward's own words did not convince you I did not misquote him, nothing will.

You are now acting like a criticaster that wants to read more in the author's 
words than the author himself says there is.

 DS>   And also to be expected was that Ward would be unhappy
 DS> that I his elaborate set of hypothesis / conclusion / chain of
 DS> reasoning was so easily demolished with statements that
 DS> showed why each and every hypothesis was false, and thus the
 DS> conclusion was vacuous.

Not at all. All you have ventured are opinions. Nothing to show that Ward's 
reasoning was false.

 DS>>>   Because they are the rules accepted by the majority of moderators.

 MVDV>> Majority? Really?

 DS>   Yes really.

 MVDV>> Please provide the figures to back up that claim.

 DS>   I know of several hundred active international echos that
 DS> use the Elist

How many /moderators/ use the e-list by their own free choise?

And how many moderators do not use the e-list?

 DS>   How many can you name who do not accept it as a valid
 DS> information source?

You do the leg work. You claimed the majority of moderators accept the rules. 
Provide the figures to prove it.

And no, saying how many /use/ the lost isn't good enough. To prove your claim 
you must prove that there is a majority of moderators, world wide, that 
/accept/ the rules you claim are in effect.

 DS>   Ward has not said that he accepts your claim to be
 DS> moderator of HAM.

Then I suggest you hone up on your reading skills.

Anyway, you can't have it both ways. You expressed disapointment towards Ward 
for supporting me. So you acceptyed that he supports me. You can't deny that 
support now.

 MVDV>> Redo. An echo does not have an origin. Only the individual
 MVDV>> messages do.

 DS>    Rubbish.  The moderator states the origin when he enters
 DS> the information in the Elist.

You can't refer to the e-list when answering the question "why do your rules 
prevail over mine". That's circular reasoning. That invalidates your entire 
chain of reasoning.

The elist can claim the earth is flat or that pi equals 3 from now on. That 
does not make it so.

An echo does not have an origin. Saying that it does is technical nonsense.

 DS>   Because I care enough about fidonet to speak out when
 DS> someone attempts to destroy the heart and soul of fidonet
 DS> today, which is moderated echos.

Ehh? I am out to destroy moderated echomail?

 DS> IMO, if that is not your intent in what you are
 DS> doing, it is a potential consequence.

Popeycock. People have been claiming abandoned echos for over a decade here. If 
that would lead to the destruction of moderated echomail it sure would be gone 
by now.

Cheers, Michiel

--- InterMail 2.29k
 * Origin: Moderator Holland.sysop, Points.028 & PointKoord.Eur (2:280/5555)

.