Subj : Food for discussion
To   : Ed Grinnell
From : Steve Quarrella
Date : Thu Feb 22 2001 01:13 pm

 SQ>> I am curious to know:  How does the HOF justify Ty Cobb's existence if
 SQ>> they can't justify Pete Rose's?
 eg> The problem with Cobb vs Rose is that Cobb didn't get banned.

Cobb was definitely in trouble with the league.  Remember that he and Tris 
Speaker were alleged to have conspired to have thrown a game themselves, and 
while I don't think there was ever any conclusive documentation, there were 
some ugly bits involved.  Cobb himself had to make threats of blowing the 
whistle if he was held up as an example of something that was common practice 
anyways, although as I recall, Cobb denied involvement.

 eg> Look at Shoeless Joe Jackson. He was every bit as good as
 eg> Cobb

Them's fightin' words, man. :-)

 eg> was but that stain was enough. If Cobb would have been
 eg> banned, I would guarantee you that he wouldn't be in despite
 eg> his records (Records that Rose would have broken much sooner
 eg> given the number of years that Cobb would have lost).

There's also that issue of 152/162 games, which plagued Roger Maris (whom I 
think deserves enshrinement, if only for the suffering the poor guy did at the 
hands of people who didn't want him to break the Babe's record).  I really 
don't like to get into those kinds of comparisons, as I think both players were 
among the best (Cobb, Rose, and Willie Mays would be atop my list if I had to 
make one).

The point I make is that the HOF makes an issue of activities on and off the 
field.  There are plenty of players in the HOF with blots on their off-field 
records -- wasn't Orlando Cepeda in trouble for drugs semi-regularly? -- and I 
can think of one player, Juan Marichal, who did something very sportsmanlike in 
waving around a baseball bat and letting it speak to John Roseboro's head.

FWIW, I'd like to see the league review the Rose case.  Personally, I think he 
should be enshrined.  If they could document that he bet on baseball -- they 
can't, can they, or at least, not on his team? -- I'd be listening, but if it's 
all hearsay, well, what happened to innocent until proven guilty?

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 * Origin: Il Vaticano * Argyle, TX  (1:393/9005.13)

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