Subj : FAILURE To : Patch From : Ralph Smole Date : Sun Oct 02 2005 10:37 pm Re: FAILURE By: Patch to Frank Reid on Sat Oct 01 2005 03:48 pm > Re: FAILURE > By: Frank Reid to Patch on Sat Oct 01 2005 12:43 pm > > > You're entitled to your opinion, Patch... if you want to credit Bush with > > overall failure of the intelligence agencies (both here and abroad) and > > dislodge him from his position in a couple years, that's what the politic > > process allows. However, if you're going to make unsubstantiated claims > > on crap spewed by people with no more knowledge than a seething hatred fo > > Bush, you should be expected to produce evidence that substantiates those > > claims, no? > > You know, you're right Frank. Since there are obviously people here who > don't believe that WMD's didn't exist. It's obviously up to the people who > remain undivded and unpartisian to the entire situation to provide just SOME > of the findings. > > Very well then, and once you get done with these, then sir I challenge you t > prove to me there WAS WMD's and where Saddam is hiding them. I suppose once > they captured him they did a complete physical, and didn't find them in his > rectal cavity. > > Final Curtain Falls on Iraq WMD Myth > http://www.truthout.org/cgi-bin/artman/exec/view.cgi/37/10630/printer > > "CIA's Final Report: No WMD Found in Iraq > The Associated Press > > Tuesday 25 April 2005 > > Recommends freeing detainees held for weapons knowledge. > > Washington - In his final word, the CIA's top weapons inspector in Iraq > said Monday that the hunt for weapons of mass destruction has "gone as far a > feasible" and has found nothing, closing an investigation into the purported > programs of Saddam Hussein that were used to justify the 2003 invasion. > > "After more than 18 months, the WMD investigation and debriefing of the > WMD-related detainees has been exhausted," wrote Charles Duelfer, head of th > Iraq Survey Group, in an addendum to the final report he issued last fall." > > You may recognize the name, Associated Press. > > Bush's total reason at the beginning of the war, was because Saddam had > WMD's. The Associated Press say's otherwise, and I guess their wrong. > > > Corn|Bush Misled US Into Iraq War - An Official Finding? > The Nation > http://www.truthout.org/docs_03/062803C.shtml > > "She is not beating around the bush. She asserts that the President > overstated the WMD case, ignoring nuances and uncertainties in the > intelligence reporting, and created a false impression about what was known > about the threat posed by Iraq. She maintains that Bush rashly claimed > Hussein was in cahoots with the evildoers of 9/11, when intelligence > indicated otherwise. This is damning stuff. Never mind all the recent > claptrap from administration apologists about the Iraq war having been fough > for the good of the repressed Iraqis. The primary rationale for the war Bush > offered in public was based on two notions: Iraq possessed ready-to-go WMDs > and Saddam Hussein was in league with al Qaeda and could slip these awful > weapons to Osama bin Laden at any moment. (Last fall, Bush exclaimed--with n > caveats or qualifiers--that Hussein was "dealing" with al Qaeda.) The danger > Bush and his crew argued repeatedly, was imminent and real--so > clear-and-present that the United States could not afford to wait any longer > or take a chance on enhanced and more intrusive inspections. > > Now Harman says Bush had no right to declare, as he did on March 17, that > "intelligence gathered by this and other governments leaves no doubt that th > Iraq regime continues to possess and conceal some of the most lethal weapons > ever devised," or to say Hussein was a bin Laden ally. Harman, a California > moderate who is no hothead and who voted for the Iraq war, is essentially > branding Bush a liar. If her remarks accurately reflect the committee's work > it means the administration will be confronted with evidence it > misrepresented intelligence in its attempt to whip up support for the war. > And it may well be confronted in public. Harman notes that Representative > Porter Goss, the Republican chairman of the committee, has promised to hold > public hearings, perhaps in July, and to produce an unclassified report as > soon as possible. (Soon after Harman made her remarks on the floor, Goss led > a successful effort to defeat an amendment offered by Representative Dennis > Kucinich, a Democratic presidential candidate, that would have required the > inspector general of the CIA to investigate the allegation that Vice > President Dick Cheney pressured the agency to produce reports supporting the > administration's policy on Iraq.) > > "It is already clear that there were flaws in US intelligence," Harman > says. "Iraq's WMD was not located where the intelligence community thought i > might be. Chemical weapons were not used in the war despite the intelligence > community's judgment that their use was likely. I urge this administration > not to contemplate military action, especially preemptive action, in Iran, > North Korea or Syria until these issues are cleared up." She also suggests > that an independent commission might be needed to examine the MIA WMD > controversy. " > > > CIA Sued for 'Firing Spy Who Questioned WMD Claims' > The New York Times > http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/printer_080105L.shtml > > "By James Risen > The New York Times > > Monday 01 August 2005 > > Washington - The Central Intelligence Agency was told by an informant in > the spring of 2001 that Iraq had abandoned a major element of its nuclear > weapons program, but the agency did not share the information with other > agencies or with senior policy makers, a former CIA officer has charged. > > In a lawsuit filed in federal court here in December, the former CIA > officer, whose name remains secret, said that the informant told him that > Iraq's uranium enrichment program had ended years earlier and that centrifug > components from the scuttled program were available for examination and even > purchase. > > The officer, an employee at the agency for more than 20 years, including > several years in a clandestine unit assigned to gather intelligence related > to illicit weapons, was fired in 2004." > > Chief Arms Inspector: "Bush in Denial" over Iraq WMD > Agence France Presse > http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/printer_100804W.shtml > > "WASHINGTON - President George W. Bush's administration is in denial over th > lack of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq before the US-led invasion in > 2003, ex-chief US arms inspector David Kay said. > > A report by the Iraq Survey Group that Kay ran until he quit at the star > of the year found Iraq had no chemical, biological or nuclear weapons when > Bush was saying that Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein was a growing threat. > > The White House has insisted Saddam was a threat to the United States an > had weapons of mass destruction capability, but Kay told NBC television: "Al > I can say is 'denial' is not just a river in Egypt." > > "The report is scary enough without misrepresenting what it says," he > added. " > > "WMD Report Directly Contradicts Bush Claims" > By Katherin Shrader > The Associated Press > http://www.truthout.org/cgi-bin/artman/exec/view.cgi/37/10024 > > "Thursday 31 March 2005 > > Panel finds US intelligence on Iraq's weapons was 'dead wrong.' > > In a scathing report, a presidential commission said Thursday that > America's spy agencies were "dead wrong" in most of their judgments about > Iraq's weapons of mass destruction before the war and that the United States > knows "disturbingly little" about the threats posed by many of the nation's > most dangerous adversaries." > > > > The Associated Press, The New York Times, both reputable sources of valuable > information that has a lot to lose if their information is inacurate. > Remember what happened when a certain news agency reported misinformation?! > > Unless you've been living under a rock for the past 5 plus years, this > information shouldn't be 'new'. Since it is being reported by the press > there is a bit of 'taking it all in context', but give me a break guys. > > I don't debate anything with little to no fact, and the last thing I want to > do is debate about politics because regardless of the information presented, > it all boils down to opinion. You can choose to accept or reject the > information posted above, and quite honestly I don't care which you do. But > don't call me out on the carpet to prove something that's been openly > discussed in the news even today. > > Enjoy your day, Frank! > > > ----- > -Patch, Sysop of the Lair of the Wolverine 2; Primal Scream > URL:www.lotw2.net * Telnet:lotw2.servebbs.net * Orlando, FL > Guild Leader of Gaelic Storm, www.gs-guild.org > "The BEST Online Gaming Community!" > Bush-haters will continue to spout crap no matter what happens. Liberal Democrats are the devil's spawn. Keep on spreading your malicious lies. 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