Subj : FAILURE To : Frank Reid From : Patch Date : Sat Oct 01 2005 02:48 pm Re: FAILURE By: Frank Reid to Patch on Sat Oct 01 2005 12:43 pm > You're entitled to your opinion, Patch... if you want to credit Bush with th > overall failure of the intelligence agencies (both here and abroad) and > dislodge him from his position in a couple years, that's what the political > process allows. However, if you're going to make unsubstantiated claims bas > on crap spewed by people with no more knowledge than a seething hatred for > Bush, you should be expected to produce evidence that substantiates those > claims, no? You know, you're right Frank. Since there are obviously people here who don't believe that WMD's didn't exist. It's obviously up to the people who remain undivded and unpartisian to the entire situation to provide just SOME of the findings. Very well then, and once you get done with these, then sir I challenge you to prove to me there WAS WMD's and where Saddam is hiding them. I suppose once they captured him they did a complete physical, and didn't find them in his rectal cavity. Final Curtain Falls on Iraq WMD Myth http://www.truthout.org/cgi-bin/artman/exec/view.cgi/37/10630/printer "CIA's Final Report: No WMD Found in Iraq The Associated Press Tuesday 25 April 2005 Recommends freeing detainees held for weapons knowledge. Washington - In his final word, the CIA's top weapons inspector in Iraq said Monday that the hunt for weapons of mass destruction has "gone as far as feasible" and has found nothing, closing an investigation into the purported programs of Saddam Hussein that were used to justify the 2003 invasion. "After more than 18 months, the WMD investigation and debriefing of the WMD-related detainees has been exhausted," wrote Charles Duelfer, head of the Iraq Survey Group, in an addendum to the final report he issued last fall." You may recognize the name, Associated Press. Bush's total reason at the beginning of the war, was because Saddam had WMD's. The Associated Press say's otherwise, and I guess their wrong. Corn|Bush Misled US Into Iraq War - An Official Finding? The Nation http://www.truthout.org/docs_03/062803C.shtml "She is not beating around the bush. She asserts that the President overstated the WMD case, ignoring nuances and uncertainties in the intelligence reporting, and created a false impression about what was known about the threat posed by Iraq. She maintains that Bush rashly claimed Hussein was in cahoots with the evildoers of 9/11, when intelligence indicated otherwise. This is damning stuff. Never mind all the recent claptrap from administration apologists about the Iraq war having been fought for the good of the repressed Iraqis. The primary rationale for the war Bush offered in public was based on two notions: Iraq possessed ready-to-go WMDs and Saddam Hussein was in league with al Qaeda and could slip these awful weapons to Osama bin Laden at any moment. (Last fall, Bush exclaimed--with no caveats or qualifiers--that Hussein was "dealing" with al Qaeda.) The danger, Bush and his crew argued repeatedly, was imminent and real--so clear-and-present that the United States could not afford to wait any longer or take a chance on enhanced and more intrusive inspections. Now Harman says Bush had no right to declare, as he did on March 17, that "intelligence gathered by this and other governments leaves no doubt that the Iraq regime continues to possess and conceal some of the most lethal weapons ever devised," or to say Hussein was a bin Laden ally. Harman, a California moderate who is no hothead and who voted for the Iraq war, is essentially branding Bush a liar. If her remarks accurately reflect the committee's work, it means the administration will be confronted with evidence it misrepresented intelligence in its attempt to whip up support for the war. And it may well be confronted in public. Harman notes that Representative Porter Goss, the Republican chairman of the committee, has promised to hold public hearings, perhaps in July, and to produce an unclassified report as soon as possible. (Soon after Harman made her remarks on the floor, Goss led a successful effort to defeat an amendment offered by Representative Dennis Kucinich, a Democratic presidential candidate, that would have required the inspector general of the CIA to investigate the allegation that Vice President Dick Cheney pressured the agency to produce reports supporting the administration's policy on Iraq.) "It is already clear that there were flaws in US intelligence," Harman says. "Iraq's WMD was not located where the intelligence community thought it might be. Chemical weapons were not used in the war despite the intelligence community's judgment that their use was likely. I urge this administration not to contemplate military action, especially preemptive action, in Iran, North Korea or Syria until these issues are cleared up." She also suggests that an independent commission might be needed to examine the MIA WMD controversy. " CIA Sued for 'Firing Spy Who Questioned WMD Claims' The New York Times http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/printer_080105L.shtml "By James Risen The New York Times Monday 01 August 2005 Washington - The Central Intelligence Agency was told by an informant in the spring of 2001 that Iraq had abandoned a major element of its nuclear weapons program, but the agency did not share the information with other agencies or with senior policy makers, a former CIA officer has charged. In a lawsuit filed in federal court here in December, the former CIA officer, whose name remains secret, said that the informant told him that Iraq's uranium enrichment program had ended years earlier and that centrifuge components from the scuttled program were available for examination and even purchase. The officer, an employee at the agency for more than 20 years, including several years in a clandestine unit assigned to gather intelligence related to illicit weapons, was fired in 2004." Chief Arms Inspector: "Bush in Denial" over Iraq WMD Agence France Presse http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/printer_100804W.shtml "WASHINGTON - President George W. Bush's administration is in denial over the lack of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq before the US-led invasion in 2003, ex-chief US arms inspector David Kay said. A report by the Iraq Survey Group that Kay ran until he quit at the start of the year found Iraq had no chemical, biological or nuclear weapons when Bush was saying that Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein was a growing threat. The White House has insisted Saddam was a threat to the United States and had weapons of mass destruction capability, but Kay told NBC television: "All I can say is 'denial' is not just a river in Egypt." "The report is scary enough without misrepresenting what it says," he added. " "WMD Report Directly Contradicts Bush Claims" By Katherin Shrader The Associated Press http://www.truthout.org/cgi-bin/artman/exec/view.cgi/37/10024 "Thursday 31 March 2005 Panel finds US intelligence on Iraq's weapons was 'dead wrong.' In a scathing report, a presidential commission said Thursday that America's spy agencies were "dead wrong" in most of their judgments about Iraq's weapons of mass destruction before the war and that the United States knows "disturbingly little" about the threats posed by many of the nation's most dangerous adversaries." The Associated Press, The New York Times, both reputable sources of valuable information that has a lot to lose if their information is inacurate. Remember what happened when a certain news agency reported misinformation?! Unless you've been living under a rock for the past 5 plus years, this information shouldn't be 'new'. Since it is being reported by the press there is a bit of 'taking it all in context', but give me a break guys. I don't debate anything with little to no fact, and the last thing I want to do is debate about politics because regardless of the information presented, it all boils down to opinion. You can choose to accept or reject the information posted above, and quite honestly I don't care which you do. But don't call me out on the carpet to prove something that's been openly discussed in the news even today. Enjoy your day, Frank! ----- -Patch, Sysop of the Lair of the Wolverine 2; Primal Scream URL:www.lotw2.net * Telnet:lotw2.servebbs.net * Orlando, FL Guild Leader of Gaelic Storm, www.gs-guild.org "The BEST Online Gaming Community!" --- þ Synchronet þ The Lair of the Wolverine II; Primal Scream * www.lotw2.net * lotw2.servebbs.net .