Subj : A pie
To   : Alexander Koryagin
From : Gleb Hlebov
Date : Thu Dec 07 2023 11:13:44

Hello Alexander,

<Thu 07-12-2023 09:02> Alexander Koryagin <2:221/6> vs. me:

 GH>> "...Nutella has become out comfort food, we like it with banana
 GH>> or pretzels."
 AK> Nutella is like ice-cream, it is understandable.

Sure.

 AK> out ?-> our

It's just a silly typo, alright.
Damn, I checked that very msg 3 times. How could it creep in? I suspect someone's tosser did that. Also my work keyboard sucks. :-[

 AK> banana ?-> bananas

This is it.
It's supposed to be exactly "we like it with banana".
Alas, "banana" can be uncountable.

 GH>> On the other hand, mentioned as a dish, like a menu item you may
 GH>> order in a cafe or restaurant, it should be referred to as
 GH>> countable:
 GH>> "...They got a cherry pie there that'll kill ya!"
 GH>> So, again, it's complicated.
 AK> I think that the matter is simpler. When they say in the dictionary
 AK> that pie is both countable and uncountable in use they just mean that
 AK> you _can_ put an indefinite article before "pie", or you are free not
 AK> to put it.

It depends on the context. Not having a similar concept in our language, this is quite hard for us to grasp, it's never simple. :-)
But it doesn't work just at random, as you'd expect.

 AK> The same situation with steak:
 AK> "I had steak and kidney pie with chips"
 AK> but probably is also correct
 AK> "I had a steak and (a) kidney pie with chips"

I'm afraid you got it wrong here.
"Steak & kidney pie" is "one entity".

========
Steak and kidney pie is a popular British dish. It is a savoury pie filled principally with a mixture of diced beef, diced kidney (which may be beef, lamb, veal, or pork) and onion. (google)
========

Thus, the first one is the correct usage, the second makes no sense.

 AK> I also suspect that the more the speech is informal the less articles
 AK> it contains. ;-)

I don't think there's such a connection, or dependency. But without tutors it's getting hard to settle this kind of dispute. :-)

Again, I could try to explain the usage via some abstractions (this is how I believe it works):

1.  Mom: texts "Did you eat?"
    Son: "Yeah sure"
    M: "What was it"
    S: "Steak and kidney pie with chips"
    M: "Good"

2.  Friend: asks "So last night you went to that restaurant?"
    Me: "Yeah"
    F: "How was it?"
    M: "Great, I had a steak and kidney pie, at last"
    F: "THAT pie? For real? With chips?"
    M: "Yeah, it's something else! Highly recommended."

Do you realize the difference between those two? Both are casual dialogue instances that can occur everyday everywhere.


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WBR, Gleb                                      <Thu 07-12-2023 11:13>
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