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From: Volker Birk <bumens@dingens.org>
Newsgroups: alt.ascii-art
Subject: Re: ASCII swastika, ascii swastikas
Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2011 16:31:59 +0000 (UTC)
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Daniel Ruth-Exposed <daniel.ruth.exposed@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hitler put the symbol on its corner to highlight the S-shapes
> for his socialism. He also always oriented it in the S-direction,
> again for his socialism. Your comments are consistent with those
> points.

Actually, I doubt that. And there are good reasons not to believe. I
don't know a single symbol Hitler designed for "socialism". As I stated,
the S rune isn't one.

> "Hakenkreuz" is a common German word used for translation of
> "swastica". However, you as a German native speaker would not dispute
> that it clearly (even to an English speaker) literally means "hooked
> cross."

To be correct: it doesn't mean "hooked cross", literally we have to
translate that to "hook cross", which comes close to "cross of hooks".

> And you would concede that Hitler did NOT use the work
> swastika, he used the work hakenkreuz.

Yes, of course. "Hakenkreuz" is the German word for "swastica", and of
course Hitler (and all other people in Germany up to today) are using
the word "Hakenkreuz" for any swastica. We are not only using Hakenkreuz
for the Nazi symbol, but for every kind of swastica, because it's just
the native German word for that kind of symbol.

> Swastika is a sanskrit word that was deliberately used by people to
> mislead them about the German symbol, and to distance the German
> national socialist symbol from the cross (and the religious impact of
> crosses), by instead defaming a foreign sanskrit term and symbol.

I don't think so. While "swastica" is a Sanscrit word as a matter of
fact, there is no misleading, because of the identity of the meaning
of "swastica" and "Hakenkreuz". And swasticas aren't commonly used in
Christian religion.

I really can recommend the Wikipedia article about swastica:

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastica>

> The SS runes are not a misunderstanding. No one said they stand for
> "socialism" (other than that it was part of the government under
> German national socialism). They're meaning "Schutzstaffel" clearly
> shows the same type of stylized use of the rune style lettering for a
> word that has S-letters in them.

That's the next misunderstanding.

While uncommon in these days now, German language has three types of
letters, which mark an "S". The first, the latin S, is the same one in
English. The second one, which is used up today in Germany and Austria
(while not in the German speaking parts of Switzerland), is what we call
"scharfes S" (literally: sharp S). It's formed a little bit like the
Greek symbol Beta, in Unicode: ß, see:

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%9F>

Up to about 1950 there was a third form of the letter S in German, the
"langes S" (literally: long S), in Unicode: ſ, see:

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_s>

It was derived from the Roman cursive medial s. Probably you're
confusing this letter with a rune. It isn't one. Runes never were used
in German texts AFAIK, beside the SS rune pair as logo for the
Schutzstaffel.

> In other words, the VW logo also does not stand for "socialism" (other
> than it was a car intended to demonstrate German national socialism)
> yet it again shows two letters in stylized form to represent words.
> Your comments support the point made in the original post, that the
> Hakenkreuz was used to represent stylized crossed S-shapes for the
> socialist party it represented.

And that's a misunderstanding again. The Hakenkreuz for sure has nothing
to do with the SS runes. It is historically wrong to bring it together
with socialism in any way. The swastica is just a symbol for fortune,
which was chosen by Adolf Hitler (who was an artist years before he
entered politics) for his logo, by modifying it with rotating it by 45°.
I think, it's clear that the red background references socialism in the
Nazi logo, though.

The S rune has a different origin; it is descendend from the rune
Sowilō ("sun"), see:

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sowilo>

> http://rexcurry.net/swastika3swastika.jpg

That's nonsense, sorry. None of these symbols in this picture ever were
used by the NSDAP. And it's just a misunderstanding to set a rune into a
text with latin letters.

> Your comments are consistent with, support and even repeat the points
> made in the work of Dr. Rex Curry.

I don't think so.

> The USA's Pledge of Allegiance was also the origin of the Nazi salute
> adopted later by Adolf Hitler (see the site that archives the work of
> Dr. Rex Curry). http://rexcurry.net

That's the next incorrect claim. The Nazis used the Roman salute as
gesture for the "Deutscher Gruss", and they did copy that from the
Italian partito fascista, who copied it themselves from the Romans.
The wording "Heil Hitler" is a literal translation of the Roman salute
"ave caesar" (literally "well-being to you, Caesar"). The German "Heil"
means "well-being".

To be honest, I'm getting a bad feeling about the competence of this
"Dr. Rex Curry" (whoever he is).

Yours,
VB.
-- 
"If /dev/null is fast in web scale I will use it."

    http://www.mongodb-is-web-scale.com/