X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit X-Google-Thread: f996b,b8b1a663c4829ea5 X-Google-Attributes: gidf996b,public X-Google-ArrivalTime: 2002-01-01 11:47:59 PST Path: archiver1.google.com!news1.google.com!newsfeed.stanford.edu!news.ems.psu.edu!news.cis.ohio-state.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.cwix.com!ctb-nntp1.saix.net!not-for-mail From: Mel Newsgroups: alt.ascii-art Subject: Re: Mr.Genius Date: Tue, 01 Jan 2002 21:48:55 +0200 Organization: www.AdderleyStreet.co.za Lines: 302 Message-ID: References: <3c252255$0$46364$edfadb0f@dspool01.news.tele.dk> <9jsh2u48civ0v7klr5ansvfkhqp3d916vg@4ax.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: dial70.mindspring.co.za Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: ctb-nnrp1.saix.net 1009914472 5446 196.25.102.70 (1 Jan 2002 19:47:52 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@saix.net NNTP-Posting-Date: 1 Jan 2002 19:47:52 GMT X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 Xref: archiver1.google.com alt.ascii-art:13250 On Sun, 30 Dec 2001 12:38:35 -0600, Taliszanna sucked my dick and said: >On Sun, 30 Dec 2001, Mel wrote: >> but white people definitely _do_ suck... of all the people on the face of >> the world, white people are the most wretched perverted evil fuckers... and >> I'm a white person just btw... > I disagree, (and not simply because I am 3 parts white). I think >that it is about equal everywhere-- it's juat that in the past, countries >that were run by white people had the funds to wield their barbarism as a >weapon because the countries knew business & trade well and probably >also had pillaged someone. I believe that any nation that has power would >use it to control another nation. In governments, even the most >well-meaning person, given the right kind of power, will attempt to use it >over someone else. The *way* in which it is used is how to measure the >quality of that being. maybe... except we have only the white example... as the dominant culture on the planet... >> the white person is the one who brought so-called civilisation to the >> world... it is the white person who took by force what the native people >> had... > You are speaking about White people in past tense but are you >keeping an eye on the fact that those who ran the Indian schools are not >the current generation or our parents' generation? Or the fact that we >cannot be blamed for the deeds of the European Explorers in the >1700's? Be sure, during highschool when we were taught about the history >of our own country, I felt ashamed of many of Canada's forefathers. When >I read about the things that were done to the First Nations indian peoples >here I was enraged and when I watched movies regarding slavery of black >African-Americans, I was nearly sick to my stomach at how disgusting >humans can be. However, I will not write off every White person as evil >because of what their ancestors may have done, whatever country their >roots lie in. past wrongs need to be redressed in the present... no words of apology are needed... only actions demonstrating remorse... >> the white people are just fucking users... have always been and continue to >> be such... they don't give a shit that the victims of centuries and >> millennia of their racist policies are reduced to dying of starvation... >There are many who do and do something about it. Following them, there >are many who do care, but do not have the funds to lend or the opportunity >to actually physically lend a hand because they have children that they >owe money, time and love to first and foremost. Then, as with any people, >there are people who are selfish even within their own community and live >in a little bubble of a world where they are the big shiny star. Humans >of all types exist in every group. It is unavoidable. the greedy financiers of this world are the ones to target, not the housewives... >> instead they bitch that they cannot afford a new SUV... > Not every white person gives a crap about getting the better car, >you know. It is an illusion to believe so. most are preoccupied by the trivialities of their own lives... >> ag, I just want the whole of humanity to die soon... because we truly do not >> have the right to exist anymore... we have fucked this planet on its head... >> and we spend all day thinking of new ways to fuck each other... > Yes, it is true that humankind has very much screwed the planet >over, but there are those of us who try to change things for the >better. I try as hard as I can-- recycling like mad, helping others to >help themselves, volunteering, cleaning up our parks and the riverbank, >donating blood (whenever my veins don't collapse), creating most of my own >cosmetics instead of buying those that test on animals, (*sometimes people >give me animal-tested stuff so I feel like I have to use it, but I think >about the animals while I wear their sacrifice and honour them). I give >my old books to those who come from families that have trouble buying >their own, I look after the birds around here so that they don't die from >the cold in the winter, I had my cat neutered so that she wouldn't >contribute to the stray cat problem that we have, and I look out for >people younger than me who are going through the confusion and angst of >teenagerdom. I buy 2nd hand clothing and turn the leather jackets that >nobody wants into something so that the animal didn't die in vain, I >don't waste energy or heat, respect even the smallest insects, and >encourage others to do all of these things as well. I give back to the >earth. **smile** We don't all suck. one person can make a difference it is true... but we have billions of people contributing daily to the global crisis... you repeatedly dispute culpability by saying that people are not _directly_ responsible for the shit that happens... here is one concrete example... http://www.mcspotlight.org every time anyone eats a McDonalds meal they destroy the planet... without even realising it... every time we drive our cars, we kill the planet... obviously people need to be better informed and we need environmentally sound alternatives... but the market speaks loudly... planet friendly methods of transport are available... but at greater cost... chief of which is a huge investment in new infrastructure... who among us will inventory the world around us and speak out and demand that we change the way we live...? who will provide us with bullet proof vests when the big corporates hire hit squads...? (don't even think this does not happen!) I can't do it all on my own... for starters we can summarily close McDonalds down and distribute their entire fortune to those who need it the most... >> and the indicator of how sick the human mind is, is evidenced by the >> phenomenon known as religion... even you, who seem reasonably intelligent, >> have decided that some non-existent goddess spoke to you... > I did not "decide"-- I began to hear her name at odd, completely >random moments when I was deeply involved in reading novels or studying >something that had nothing to do with Her, then I kept seeing Her name >all over the place. It was far too much coincidence for me when it kept >happening over 1/2 a year, out of the blue. She is non-existent to you >if you decide that She is, but just because you decide such a thing does >not make it absolute for the rest of the world. There are some things >that exist whether you want them to or not and whether or not they touch >your consciousness. look, tally, I respect you, okay... but I can't believe that your goddess exists... sorry... >> you have successfully deluded yourself with a lie... you cannot prove >> your goddess' existence, >Just as you cannot disprove Her. I believe that it is more plausible that your mind played tricks on you... >> yet you choose to believe in spite of no evidence... >I have personal evidence. I tend to be one of those folks who requires >such before believing in anything. I _require_ physical manifestation in front of me... something that I can experience with all my 5 senses... I experience the chair I sit on it that way (well I don't taste it anymore)... I have never touched or seen directly a gold bullion bar... but I have seen a gold ring... so I know it is possible to collect enough gold in one place to form a solid bar of it... but I have experienced no physical trace of any deity... >> that's what humans do... they choose to believe in a make-believe reality >> that is better than the shithole actual reality, for the obvious reason... >> fantasy realities are more palatable to our overactive imaginative brains... >No, it's like this: no matter where a person comes from, in the end that >person will decide whatever he or she wants to. You have done no >differently. Reality is generally relative. our brains are amazing... they are capable of powerful imagery... they are also extremely prone to delusion... religion it now appears is a feature of our brain's functionality... now this represents a chicken and egg kind of dilemma... a religious person would argue that god put that in our brains as evidence of his existence... however a non-religious person like myself prefers to see this as a quirk of evolution and possibly a flaw... since the brain is not yet fully understood it is possible that this part of our brain does more than just conjure up religious fervour... i believe it is dangerous to extrapolate the existence of deity from the fact that a portion of our brain is a 'devotion centre'... >> and that is why there is _ZERO_ hope for humanity and should not be... >> because our brains are not capable of dealing with the goddawful reality of >> existence... so we invent alternative nicer realities... >And you expect what as an alternative if we were to embrace *your* >reality? yes... because it is nearer the truth... life is not pretty... for the most part it is a pretty sordid affair... > It would be great to believe in the lack of existence of good >things in the world and be miserable and want to die? I did not create it... it was already here when I was born... so shoot the messenger... you wish me to weave you pretty tales of victorian days gone by...? I believe Enid Blyton has covered that already... > I have known >several atheists in my time, but none of them were so down on the planet >as you seem to be, Mel. oh dear... I'm wrong... the planet isn't really hopelessly polluted... Canada has not really exhausted its stocks of fish... the sea is not really going to rise several metres in the near future... a huge meteor is not going to strike the earth and obliterate all life... > They tried to make the very best of every day and >of themselves. wishful thinking does not make it so... > They believed in science and they were awake to the things >that were going on around the world, but they didn't give up on >themselves. we live in a finite universe... a day begins and a day ends... a species is born and a species is extinguished... so it will be with man... >> humanity as a whole is damaged goods... we are all in a state of the deepest >> trauma possible... >Gee, that's nice and depressing but it's not a reason to abandon anything >that I've worked for or that I care about. you won't... because on a practical level one gets on with the job of surviving... just like I do... I get up, get showered, shaved & dressed and go to work... but at a deeper level we perceive larger truths... >> why do you think people so easily become nazis...? >Because it was done in a very crafty way. The people were poor and >desperate and Hitler marched onto the scene promising massive improvement >in the economy as well as avengement-- not to mention that he was highly >intelligent, was excellent at public speech, and had the gift of >psychology on his side. It was genius-level brainwashing if you take a >look at exactly how it was done... and many people in Germany didn't >realise what was happening until it was upon them in such a force as that >all that they could do was either join the Nazi ranks and fight the Nazis >from the inside or flee the country. the nazis yearned for the day of television... so that they could beam their bullshit into every house... today that is accomplished by people who think little differently from the nazis... I give you CNN - a propaganda machine Goebbels would have slathered to have... >> do you think that that mentality died with the Nazi Reich...? >Of course not. I know people who support Nazi values despite that they >themselves would have been targets if they'd been germans of the late >1930's-- people with learning disabilities, of gypsy heritage, or who are >gay. Hell, I know a Native guy who was raised in a white household and is >a Nazi. Explain that one to me... he wants to be on the winning team... the nazis control this planet... just covertly... >> wake up please... people hate each other... >I never doubted that. You claimed that religions hate. My reply was "No, >people do". Sounds to me like I agreed with you. well my point was that religions delude people into believing that they love others by persecuting them mercilessly for not following their religion... >> and we destroy each other every opportunity we get... >I, myself, have never killed anyone. I read somewhere that the average Westerner is indirectly responsible for the deaths of 1.8 people... think of the dispossessed tribes of the South American rain forests... >> either with bullets or economic oppression... most of >> this world lives in abject poverty with _zero_ hope of a better future... >> those few 8% who enjoy a life of luxury in the west (and elsewhere but >> mostly in the west) do so at the expense of everyone else and the planet's >> environment... >Here in the west we have been successful at setting ourselves up over a >long period of time. at the cost of others' lives... > If your country held the title of richest or >2nd-richest country in the world, do you think that you'd take the same >mentality as you currently do? well, give us the opportunity first... then we'll see... > Economy boosting is not about taking pity >on a country and trading with it because it is crying. If you think >otherwise, then you don't understand the business world really. I live and breathe in the business world, darling... have been doing so for many years now... I'm 34yo... >> we live in a world that is so seriously fucked that no one can solve its >> problems... i say "burn it all down"... >And you called *me* gutless. well it's not going to happen... it's just my wishful thinking... actually I wish for some solutions first... by the time I am 44 I want to have done just one thing that will make people think twice about what they do in their ordinary lives that kills this planet... I think I must learn to fly... -- smash yer modem, reboot, kill yerself if in doubt, suck me www.AdderleyStreet.co.za