X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit X-Google-Thread: f996b,277a1761e60d5b8a X-Google-Attributes: gidf996b,public X-Google-ArrivalTime: 2001-07-18 10:09:02 PST Path: archiver1.google.com!newsfeed.google.com!newsfeed.stanford.edu!feed.textport.net!news.uni-stuttgart.de!rz.uni-karlsruhe.de!news.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de!not-for-mail From: Markus Gebhard Newsgroups: alt.ascii-art Subject: Re: Jave 1.1a , remarks and suggestions Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 19:09:32 +0200 Organization: University of Karlsruhe, Germany Lines: 275 Message-ID: <3B55C2CC.C870FFD9@rz.uni-karlsruhe.de> References: <3b54b1bb$0$874$edfadb0f@dspool01.news.tele.dk> NNTP-Posting-Host: wn4-jarjar.wn4.uni-karlsruhe.de Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: news.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de 995476140 7871 172.20.12.141 X-Complaints-To: usenet@rz.uni-karlsruhe.de X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en Xref: archiver1.google.com alt.ascii-art:6694 Christian 'CeeJay' Jensen wrote: > > It's good .. it's VERY good .. best Ascii - editor there is. :-) > But it's not perfect. lol. It never will be perfect. But people like you help me making it better and better... Thanks again for sharing your ideas. I will comment on some of them, but before I want to state that I will not have that much time for working on the project than I had during the last few months. However, there are still lots of things to do and I think I will do a lot of them - but I will not add that much features any more. > * [Watermark] > - Needs an option to revert to original shape ( like shape factor in the image > converter ) Maybe by holding down shift-key like with shapes? Will add this one to my list. > - On watermark option there should be a checkbot or button to show/hide the > watermark - I know it's in the menu too , it just seems intuitive if it where in > the options too I think I will not add this option, for you also have the button in the bottom bar and you can use keyboard shortcut Ctrl-P. > - Watermarks (with on/off) in the imageconverter. Hm... No bad idea. But too much work for too few gain. > - Option in imageconverter to apply a watermark to the drawing area with the > same position shape and size as the converted output - Thats what I usually use > a watermark for .. for detailwork on converted images. This one is a better idea. I will add it to my list (i.e. it has a fair chance to be a feature in the future). > * [Text tool] > - MOST WANTED FEATURE (my most wanted , I can't speak for everybody else) , The > ability to select text just like in a texteditor [...] > The two tools ( text and selction ) could even be combined into one tool. You are right, I have often thought about this one. But again it is not that easy. I have to somehow combine those two tools. Each of them is quite complex and it will take me some time to figure out how to actualy implement it. > Until I can , then Textpad is still my prefered editor for ascii-art Is this a blackmail attempt? ;-) > - Jave/Normal is what most people know as Insert/Overwrite (where Jave is > Overwrite). > I suggest renaming the two modes to Overwrite/Insert and assign the Insert key > as a toggle button between the two. Also show the status in the bottom status > bar status. You are right, that's the way it is on any other system and I will do that. > Insert could also toggle mix in all the other modes .. the problem would then be > , that it would be odd that it toggled something else in the text tool I will not do that (do you need to toggle mix that often?). > * [image convertor] > The experimental B/W convertos can ddo fine jobs on very simple images .. > typically black and white ones with little detail. > Specificly I like the output of the Thick and Thin & Thick modes. > An idea .. could the convertor detect lines or areas with high contrast and have > the b/w mode of choice draw just the edges (because thick / thin makes very good > edges) and use another algorithm for the rest of the image .. My preferred shade > algorithm is the one i suggested myself , the 1 pixel 8Oo:. (other combinations > like this are good too f.x 8o:. or #8O:. ) I am not going to work on the image converter the next few weeks. I have done so much work about that and have done so much testig - I do not think there is an easy way to get better results. I have also tried to combine some kind of edge detection with shading (as you suggested) but the result does not really look good in my opinion... There are a lot of other people working on algorithms. Before I continue working on it I would like to see in what way the results can be improved. This is best done by a comparision between hand converted images and automatically generated ones. Unfortunately the image2ascii competition is not going very well... > - The standard window is to narrow to completely display everything > The shape factor [ 1.0 ] box is partially hidden and so is some of the > conversion dropdown menu You are right. I think I have to do something about the arrangement of the options. Any ideas are welcome. Just making the window wider is no good fix for that. > - Colored output ? .. for export to html No way. I also like colors, but it would make it all by far more difficult than it is now. Maybe there is another good tool for colorizing Ascii art - but I will not add color to Jave (isn't that something I have already said about many features??). > * [ Jave movie editor ] > - (all the advanced commands i mentioned earlier for the player) The player is open source. Feel free to add any option :-) > - How about an option to loop the file ? good idea. > - Option to export to complete webpage or just HTML (from the movie editor) > So it makes all the tags and etc .. > Possibly also save a copy of the applet along side with the html I have already thought about that, so it's on my list. > - The top images flickers I should think about doublebuffering there... Is it enough to see 3 images as thumbnail or would you rather like to see 5 of them? > - Ability to watermark certain frames , so smooth natural animations are easier > to create. You can do that by keeping the last frame in the editor and switching betweed documents by using Ctrl-Tab. > - Move movie display to main javewindow and keep frame index and buttons in a > tool window, so you can view and edit in the same window .. it seems more > intuitive to do it this way. That's right - but it is by far harder to implement it that way. But I keep thinking about this and play around and we will se what comes out in future... > And it makes it a lot quicker to edit a movie You are so right... > * [3D renderer] > > - More shading options f.x ( #8o:. ) Right, did not yet have the time to add the editable choice with the shades. BTW: I don't like # in combination with 8o:. for it does not seem to look good with some fonts: in my mail client I can see some OoOoooo:o ugly spots here '#' OO8O8OOOOoOoo:o ``---...__ \ OOO8O8O8OOOOoo:o::. ```---`. O8O88#8#88O8OOoOoo::. .' oOO88#8#8#88OOoOoo::.:. oOO8O88#8#88O8OOoOoo::.:. ooOOOO8O8O8OOOOoo:o::.:.. oOoOOOO8O8OOOOoOoo:o::... :ooooOoOoOoooo:o::.:... :ooooooooooo:o::.:... :::o:o:o::::.:..... :::::::.:.:.... ......... > - There is a serious need for a modeler or import from a know modeler .. editing > 3D coordinated by hand isn't really userfriendly Make a suggestion for a good and simple file format. I do not want to write a 3d editor - I only wanted to play around with the idea of rendering 3d in ascii. It should not be very hard to convert other formats to my format. The only problem I am suffering from is that a textbox can only keep about 30kB of text... (If you are interested I can send you the data for an x-wing fighter). > - more ways to set the camera, not just rotate it round the y axis but also the > x and z axis > The easyiest/best way would be to control the camera like most 3D shooters. > ... Again you are right - but I do not want to spend too much time on this tool... > Jave might need faster 3D rendering for this, possibly it could draw in simple > wireframe or just draw the image in ordinary pixels and only asciify when a > shapshot is taken I think since 1.1a it is fast enough for most objects. Try the following in the renderer: press one of the buttons for navigation and then use the cursor keys to rotate/zoom. > - More primaries as demos .. I like your balls (pun intended) You are talking about those, ain't you? OoOoooo:o OO8O8OOOOoOoo:o OOO8O8O8OOOOoo:o::. O8O8888888O8OOoOoo::. 8O8OOoo oOO888888888OOoOoo::.:.88O8OOoo: oOO8O8888888O8OOoOoo::.:.8888OOoo::OOOoO:o ooOOOO8O8O8OOOOoo:o::.:..8O8OOoo::..8OOoo:: oOoOOOO8O8OOOOoOoo:o::...O8OOoo:o::.8888oo::O8oo :ooooOoOoOoooo:o::.:...oOoooo::.:..8OOoo::..8Ooo :ooooooooooo:o::.:...oooo:o::.:..OOOoO:o::O8oo:: :::o:o:o::::.:......:.:.:.:... o:o:o::..:o::.. :::::::.:.:.... :.:.... :.:.:.. :.:.. ......... (it is not very hard to diddle this image to match the other meaning) I like them, too. I think I will add a tutorial about how to create it to the documentation (the one I am going to write the next weeks or so...). > It seems I can go on with idea as I only had the some of the watermark and > texttool idea when I began writing this .. :-) Feel free to add more. I will not comment on all of them but I will read them and put the best on my list of ideas for Jave. I would also be interested in what others do/do not like to see in Jave, but only few people contribute to this topic... > I think I can be credited as the biggest contributor of suggestions so far to > Jave *g* .. Again: that's so right :-) > if you exclude Markus who dont ever seem to post his ideas for > discussion .. he just bullies them on the rest of us with a surprise update *gg* > :) There are 3 options differing in speed: 1) I write others I will do something -> it will take a month 2) I tell others I will do something -> it will take a week 3) I do not tell others and simply start doing it -> it will take a day So I rather use option 3)... ...oops, this has taken a lot of time. I have to water my tomatoes... \ \ | | `\ ,- | | `\ | ,.-'' | | :o:o`o-b':. \ | ._ , OoO____oOoo:o:: '. | `\ / /__,.===''''____'''''---._ | \ '|,=',-''' oOO8oOO8O8O8''--.._ '`-.| '.| _, , _,.OOOoo ooOoooOoOOOoOoo::.:'-''=._ \|, _' -'' OO8OO:: :ooO:ooOoOoOoo:o::... ' \ | --' ooOOOoo:: :o:o:o:o:o:o::.:... :o:o:o:o::. ::o::.. ::o:::o::::.:.. OoOoOoOoOoo:o:: ..... .:...:..... oOoOoOoOOOoOoo::.:. oOO8oOO8O8O8OOoo::.:. ooOoooOoOOOoOoo::.:.. :ooO:ooOoOoOoo:o::... ._ ____ :o:o:o:o:o:o::.:... ----..____,....'-..........'=___ ::o:::o::::.:.. ,,.---''-------------.....__ -..__ .:...:..... _-'' /' ,-' '''''=,--._'`-./ | ,-'''. =------../__ ..._..,=' ._ / | '| ../ \..__ ' '| \,/ `/ `---. - | /- \__ ...,' -^ - -.... \ . | |--''''..__ | '. ' \..._:. | | \ ' '\:::' | | / '-- - --' \:::_.--- | | ----- ' Markus (who is not very proud about his image of a tomato, but who is very proud about his tomato plant although he does not like to eat tomatoes...)