X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit X-Google-Thread: f996b,b217f9de36ff9682 X-Google-Attributes: gidf996b,public From: Andreas Freise Subject: Re: Time for a new FAQ? (LONG; also Re: others' suggestions) Date: 1997/11/03 Message-ID: <345DE5BA.2DF9@mpq.mpg.de> X-Deja-AN: 286772466 References: <345C0907.165F@spamfree.land> <63jt77$9h0$2@mnementh.southern.co.nz> <345DC0E1.6385@spamfree.land> Organization: Rechenzentrum der Max-Planck-Gesellschaft in Garching Newsgroups: alt.ascii-art Matthew Thomas wrote: [snip] > for more suggestions to come in, and then have a go at a revised > version. [snip] OK, some detailed opinions of mine... > Secondly, everyone has different ideas about what the subject of the FAQ > message should be. llizard wrote: > > "FAQs: So you're new to ascii-art..." > and (in a different message): > > *NEW* TO ASCII-ART? READ ME (FAQ) > Joan wrote: > > ASCII ART FAQ-1997-please read Colin's post are easy to spot aren't they? I don't think the subject is that important. I wouldn't go for an all-capitals subject line cause some spam-filters assume capitals equals spam. My choice : Ascii Art FAQ 1997 [snip] > > > [`Welcome to alt.ascii-art' heading] > > llizard wrote: > > > > I like the Welcome sign, but because the post is already quite long > > and people are often reluctant to download long posts, I suggest you > > use a smaller font. > > (I've used my diddled version of one of Joan Stark's fonts here.) > > __ _, > > (-| | | _ | _ _ ,_ _ _ -|-_ _ |-|- _ _ _ . . _ ,_-|- > > _|_|_|(/_|(_(_)| | |(/_ |(_) (_|| |.(_|_)(_ | |.(_|| | > > ( > > Yes, good point, although llizard's one is a *bit* hard to read. Anyone > want to do a dazzling (but smaller) freehand-style heading, or suggest a > better Figlet font choice? A *bit* hard? _I_ can read llizard's much better than yours. Back to the 'looks different on different platforms/software' problem. Less 'nice' but more general might be e.g. 'standart' : __ __ _ _ \ \ / /__| | ___ ___ _ __ ___ ___ | |_ ___ \ \ /\ / / _ \ |/ __/ _ \| '_ ` _ \ / _ \ | __/ _ \ \ V V / __/ | (_| (_) | | | | | | __/ | || (_) | \_/\_/ \___|_|\___\___/|_| |_| |_|\___| \__\___/ _ _ _ _ _ __ _| | |_ __ _ ___ ___(_|_) __ _ _ __| |_ / _` | | __| / _` / __|/ __| | |____ / _` | '__| __| | (_| | | |_ | (_| \__ \ (__| | |____| (_| | | | |_ \__,_|_|\__(_)__,_|___/\___|_|_| \__,_|_| \__| > > > 1 What is the alt.ascii-art newsgroup for? > > > 2 What is ASCII art, and why is it used? > > > > Shouldn't 1 be 2 and 2 be 1 here? You start discussing what > > alt.ascii-art is before you explain what ascii art is... > > (Five minutes later ...) A brief survey of news:news.answers reveals > that of those FAQs which describe the newsgroup and its topic > separately, a small majority have the newsgroup before its topic. A > matter of taste, I guess. 2 before 1 for me please. :) > , > (O (Matthew slapping himself with > M\ a wet bus ticket -- proverbial > / \ NZ punishment for silliness) > He he, I'll introduce that here too I think. :) > Veronica wrote: > > > > > > 9 Can I copy this ASCII picture? > > > 10 What should I know about signature files? > > > 11 What happened to rec.arts.ascii? > > > 12 Where can I find more ASCII art? > > > > 13 Is there legal copyright problems when duplicating ASCII art? > > Question 9 is what seems to me to be the consensus from recent > discussions in a.a-a about copyright. Would you like to suggest some > more detail? Some more legal details would be nice. That pictures are generally protected (? everywhere anytime ?) but that alt.ascii-art is a place to share and that 'our' common understanding of allowable practises includes some rules etc etc In previous discussions 'law' and group-rules were mixed quite often. > > 14 How do you make ascii animatons? > > Since news:alt.ascii-art.animation seems to be a wasteland now (most of > its traffic is spam, crosspostings from a.a-a, or llizard :-), I guess > it's not worth a separate FAQ, so you have a point ... so if anyone can > mail me a summary of how to do ASCII animations using scrolling > techniques (as mentioned before, I think scrolling ones are > newsreader-dependent) and animations using JavaScript, I'll include it > (keeping in mind that the FAQ shouldn't be a multi-volume epic). A detailed answer would probably be too long. Perhaps links - to where? - could be given here. > > 15 How do you make coloured ascii art? > > Care to elaborate? The only safe, semi-standard way of doing it that > I've ever seen in a.a-a is HTML, which is covered in Questions 2 and 3. Coloured ascii art wouldn't be ascii art any more but ANSI art or HTML art or whatever instead. You could mentioned that as a point 15 because Question 2 and 3 are not what I'd read while looking for a 'colour' hint. > > 16 Isn't a gif version better than just a "raw ascii" picture? > Question 2, or do you mean something else? Well, that is a 'frequently stated opinion' but I don't think there's no need to present the opposite opinion in a FAQ. > > 17 Does anybody have pictures of naked women/men in ascii? > > In my six months of reading, I don't remember this ever being *asked* > for, although Meriday, your self-portrait, and TowelMan have been > *posted* often enough... True. > > > 18 Some other popular requests... > > Like? IMHO, the FAQ shouldn't end up being a FRP (Frequently Requested > Pictures) gallery as well. True. > > > * REQ: xyz (ie, has anyone got any ASCII pictures of xyz?) > > > > (with some exceptions...) > > Like? As far as I can tell, there isn't much the regulars here are > afraid to have a go at. :-) Like a 'Kandinsky' sig-sized. ;) [snip] > > WARNING! Posting pictures containing [ANSI] characters to aaa is a > > sure way to get FLAMED! > > Why? Sure it's not a good idea, but are there any newsreaders which > crumple up in terror if you use ANSI, as opposed to just displaying the > pictures a bit oddly? Who knows. I did have a problem once on a windows platform with a free newsreader but I couldn't say for sure that ANSI was the evil and microsoft the victim. ;) My opinion. ANSI is not Ascii. > > > Some e-mail programs, particularly those built in to Web browsers, > > > can read and write messages in HTML (HyperText Markup Language, the > > > language which Web pages are written in). HTML allows colours and > > > (using JavaScript) animations in ASCII art. It IS ok to post these > > > messages, since they are just plain text; but remember, most e-mail > > > programs do not recognize HTML and will print all the HTML > > > formatting as well as the text, making your pictures more or less > > > unrecognizable. > > > > This is not good advice to put in a FAQ! It would be better to > > encourage text-only posts since the html posts don't just turn up as > > one messed-up-looking html code version in the text-only people's news > > programs but as TWO versions, one html and one plain-text, in which > > case the html one is totally superfluous. > > Usually true, although it depends on your browser settings. For instance > (if I remember correctly), of Netscape Communicator 4's three options > (send as HTML, send as plain text, send as both) the default is > unfortunately the first one. Mmh, I don't like the 'is OK' either. I'm going mad over all those html- messages in some mailing lists and I just delete them instantly. This is definately not OK with me. > ... > > > * If there are a lot of < and > symbols in the picture, with words > > > like HTML, FONT COLOR, B, I, and so on inside them, then the > > > picture has been done in HTML (see Question 2), and your > > > newsreader does not understand HTML (most don't). > > > > Is this very common? (now you see why I recommend NOT writing mail and > > news messages in html) > > Not right now, but I'm sure it will become more so (unfortunately) in > the next year or so as the HTML-defaulting mail programs become more > widely used. Oh yes, unfortunately in some parts of the net this is already common enough to start some flame wars. I think it's a good policy to explain those strange HTML tags and to suggest plain Ascii posts as well. > > Yes, you _can_ use a word processor to draw ascii art! No it is not > > "like using a sledgehammer to crack a walnut"! Word processors can > > have some sophisticated little functions that make them much more > > suitable to draw ascii images with (such as "replace", which most > > editors probably have too... > > Maybe I was a little over the top there. But generally, an editor has > more of those character-based features than a word processor, and it > doesn't keep saying `this file contains formatting which cannot be saved > in Text format; are you sure you want to close without saving the > formatting?' etc. Ah come on. Every word processor uses an editor for typing in the text. That's how the names are given. Everything you use for editing is somehow an editor. And I don't really see the need for explanation. When people ask about it they surely wonder if there's a really good editor. Say NO to that and mention that everyone uses his/her favourite or you end up with listing every editor. I personally use TheDraw, Q and Emacs most of the time and about another dozen when I need a change. ;) > > I have one comment though... I have to object that the overtype mode > > is better. I like to keep the characters there and manually move them > > around until the picture looks right. I'd rather insert spaces and > > move a character than to type over it. Am I the only one using this > > method- or is everyone else using the overtype? > > Now this seems to me to be incredibly labour-intensive, but who am I to > argue with the Queen of ASCII herself? Yep. ;) > > > ... [discussion about copy and paste] > > (hmmm... how about some instructions for that... for the most common > > types of computers...) > > I don't think so. (1) There are SO many different systems out there, and > as I said, the FAQ shouldn't be an epic; (2) copy and paste is usually > pretty easy to figure out anyway. True. > ... > > > Once you've chosen your font, prepare your canvas. Type a row of > > > spaces for however wide you want your picture. Copy this row and > > > paste it for however many rows high you think your art will get. > > > Then turn overtype on, stick your cursor somewhere in the middle, > > > and you're ready to draw ... > > > > I don't agree! With this technique it is very easy to get extra > > unnecessary spaces at the end of the lines which may cause > > "mysterious" wrapping when the image is posted! (and it is so easy to > > forget to look for them and remove them when the picture is made... > > Not if you have overtype on right from the beginning, surely? Oh yes because sometimes you switch to insert after deleting something accidently with backspace and so on and so on. But you cannot explain _everything_ . The canvas method is a good example. Keep it. > > > 10 What should I know about signature files? > > > ============================================= > ... > > > A signature file (or sig for short) is a small text file which an > > > e-mail program adds to the end of every e-mail you send -- the > > > equivalent of a letterhead for dead-tree (paper) mail. Usually it > > > contains little more than the person's name, organization, and > > > e-mail address, and an inspirational quote of some sort: but some > > > people like to incorporate ASCII art into their signature files as > > > well. > > > > (how about a link to some page with lots of examples here...?) > > Can you suggest an URL? http://wwwtios.cs.utwente.nl/~kenter/sigs.html http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/7373/sigs.htm (jgs again * sigh *) > ... > > > 12 Where can I find more ASCII art? > > > ==================================== > > > > > > Lots of ASCII artists put up libraries of their own and others' > > > ASCII art on their Web sites. Do a Web search for `ascii art', or > > > see > > > http://www.yahoo.com/Arts/Visual_Arts/Computer_Generated/ASCII_Art/. > > > If you don't have Web access, well, just read this newsgroup! :-) > > I have to admit I was a bit tired by the time I wrote this section, so > didn't include as much as I should have. Following Veronica's and > Andreas's suggestions, I'll include: > > http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/2695/links.htm > http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/8608/ > http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/7373/. > > Any suggestions of others (that aren't going to disappear in the near > future)? NO!!! Since I'm hosting a picture collection I'm a bit proud of and which will be likely to stay in the net for a long long time I understand that everyone wants to be linked everywhere. But Allen Mullen's list is something like 'the most complete list'. Why make another worse one in the FAQ. Just make clear that that link is a good starting point. Joan's page should be mentioned there for obvious reasons. But - PLEASE - not 10 others! Look into the older FAQs and you see what happens with long link lists in FAQs. BTW: A search for 'ascii art' with a search engine isn't a very succesfull way of finding the good pieces either. Try it and compare the result with - again Allen's list. > And finally, just to prove that I actually do some ASCII art (not just > FAQs :-), and to give you an idea of what I look like (in case you > haven't been to my home page), here's a self-portrait mugshot: > > ,a@@@@@@@@@m. > ,@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@. > J@@P':.. ..:`W@ > @@@':;;.. ..;;::@) > \@!:<@#@>::<@#@>.@ > |.::"??"; `???.:"\ > `._::..:_ee_...::_/ > \:..______,::/ > \::.. ...:/ > MT-3 `-:____:-' Looks like a long night... ;) And again : Good work. :) Andreas _ | Ascii Dictionary (Collection, Links, ...) | o | http://www.stud.uni-hannover.de/~freise | o <<.|_ _| < > |\ |