X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit X-Google-Thread: 105a39,2fe2138d12cc707c,start X-Google-Attributes: gid105a39,public X-Google-Thread: 111659,2fe2138d12cc707c,start X-Google-Attributes: gid111659,public X-Google-Thread: f996b,2fe2138d12cc707c,start X-Google-Attributes: gidf996b,public X-Google-Thread: fa148,2fe2138d12cc707c,start X-Google-Attributes: gidfa148,public X-Google-Thread: 10bb54,2fe2138d12cc707c,start X-Google-Attributes: gid10bb54,public X-Google-Thread: 100a3b,2fe2138d12cc707c,start X-Google-Attributes: gid100a3b,public X-Google-Thread: 11507b,2fe2138d12cc707c,start X-Google-Attributes: gid11507b,public X-Google-Thread: 113e84,2fe2138d12cc707c,start X-Google-Attributes: gid113e84,public From: rybread@cshore.com (Rybread Celsius) Subject: Beyond Lost 2/3 Date: 1997/02/01 Message-ID: <5cvt5b$t0f@beast.connix.com> X-Deja-AN: 213745227 organization: Connix - The Connecticut Internet Exchange newsgroups: alt.2600,alt.philosophy,comp.lang.pascal.borland,alt.ascii-art,alt.fan.cult-dead-cow,alt.slack,alt.punk,rec.games.video.atari,alt.zines -----BIGANSI.OBJ----[START]------------------------8<-------------------- begin 644 bigansi.obj '#\.*`@``=``` ` end -----BIGANSI.OBJ----[END]--------------------------8<-------------------- -----BIGANSI.BIN----[START]------------------------8<-------------------- begin 644 bigansi.bin 9#\0/Q`_$#\0/Q`_$#\0/P0_$#\$/Q`_$#P`` ` end -----BIGANSI.BIN----[END]--------------------------8<-------------------- Ripped ASCII of the Month: X: XMMMn: XMMMMMMMn: :HMMMMMMMMMMMn: ! :MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMH X! Well, first off tell me a bit about yourself and what you (any others?) do? I am a former software engineer. I have been in private practice for the past three years. I handle approximately 50% criminal & 50% civil (mostly plaintiffs cases & computer contracts). I represent several small and medium sized software companies. I work alone. I have represented several hackers of the past year. Fortunately I was able to keep their cases from ever going to trial. One case involved a Ph.D. student in Electrical Engineering at a major University who was hacking a system in Canada through an anon server. He was tracked down and the police were notified. We kept it to a level where he was made to do 40 hrs community service by the University - no other record or punishment. The student was quite fortunate. Before entering the law I worked in the computer industry for approximately 10 years employed as a systems manager, programmer, analyst, and a consultant. Enjoyed the work, but I realized, none of the attorneys I spoke with knew anything about computer law. I figured I would jump in and try it. Anything else? >You have defended hackers, but have you ever defended any phreakers, ones >who mess around with phones, Ma Bell, and the like? No. The closest I have come to those issues is advising drug defense attorneys on federal agencies who access cell phone records (how its done, what the legalities are, etc.). >Do you have any feeling on knowledge and if and how it should be distrubted? >In other words, can you condone hacking? I disagree with the left wing hacker who feels everything belongs to everybody and knowledge should be free to all. Seems to me the communist tried that on a grand physical scale and their economy & government collapsed. Knowledge is acquired only after someone has worked hard to achieve that knowledge. The knowledge someone acquires will eventually be public domain, but the person who spent time, money and/or other resources acquiring that knowledge must be rewarded, otherwise what incentive is there to acquire knowledge. I spent 5 years in undergraduate school, 3.5 years in law school and over $50,000 to get the degrees I have. Why would I do that if I then had to give up what I knew for free. There is no incentive. The "knowledge is free" concept is basically the same thing Karl Marx suggested decades ago. However, as the Russians found out, you must give people an incentive to work. No one works for the good of all society. They work to improve their position in life. Why would companies spend billions of dollars on R&D and then give away what they discovered? They certainly would not be in business long if they did. When it comes to the government I feel that the knowledge/information they have should be free and open. But let me qualify that statement by allowing an exception for national security issues and personal information. But for all other information - our tax dollars helped to create that knowledge and we therefore are entitled to it. As to condoning hacking. I feel that hacking serves a purpose. You learn how things work. You learn strengths & weaknesses of systems. You become knowledgeable. Hackers should put their skills to work. Work with other hackers, learn their skills, attack their systems (with permission). When you are good enough, work with businesses to improve their security and systems. Many businesses pay hackers to expose their weaknesses and help them resolve problems. Hacking is nothing more than pushing the envelope to discover new methods of doing things. However, hacking a system without permission is illegal. I do not condone unpermitted access to another's system. This crosses the line from hacking to "cracking". >Also, what is your ideal political structure? Our current form of government with changes. I would make it where the government is not as involved in every aspect of our life. The more government does, the less it does well. Our forefathers only intended our government to do those things that we as individuals cannot do (i.e. National Defense, build roads, provide public services). It seems that present day government has gotten into everything and we have the tax burden to prove it. The federal government has also undertaken an area of law it has no business in, criminal law. When the constitution was written there were only two crimes - Piracy & Treason. The federal government now has criminal laws for everything, basically duplicating the laws of each state. >How do the statutes of limitations work on hacking? After 8 years your >innocent or something like that? That is a very difficult question to answer because statutes of limitation work differently from jurisdiction to jurisdiction and from law to law. In other words, what may be the statute of limitation for Alabama on a particular crime, may not be the same in Colorado, or in the Federal jurisdiction. Also, by committing one illegal act you may have violated multiple statutes with varying time limitations. It would be safe to say that limitations on prosecution vary from as short as 1 year to indefinitely. >How much do you bill an hour? My rates vary. For non-computer related cases I charge $100/hr out of court & $150/hr in court. For computer related cases or intellectual property (copyrights, trademarks) I charge $200/hr out of court & $300/hr in court. >You being a lawyer, I was wondering if you would ever let morals get in your >way, or do you leave all personal preferences behind? I attempt to leave personal opinions at home. Every person in the U.S. is entitled to legal representation and the best defense possible of any criminal charge. There are certain cases that I refuse to take: Sexual assault (Rape) and child abuse. My personal feelings are too great for me to overlook in those instances and I therefore refer them to another attorney. Beyond that I feel I can give anybody the best defense possible regardless of my feelings. >Interesting. Well, from the list of your degrees and what you told me, I >know you are a very qualified computer specialist. You ever hack? What's >the best hack you ever pulled off? I once hacked a university's computer at their request. They were locked out of a certain area of their system and could not get back in. The methods I used were nothing fancy and could have been done by anyone with a basic knowledge of CIS, but the university was certainly grateful. >Planning on making it to any confs., Beyond HOPE possibly? Not in the near future. My caseload has increased dramatically which tends to curtail extracurricular activities. >Do you like the phone company? I have not had any problems with them yet. I guess as long as I pay my phone bill they will leave me alone. continued next message peace___anarchyfreedompunkinteractivefictionslackantiinfinityyellowoi!2o3. / -\--- Rotund \/ ! "Live long & | rybread@connix.com (/ ) Pigeon \00_| fuck off!!" |Its always after MidNite \o-o/ _||_ Riot Nrrrd | www.connix.com/~rybread