PigfacePigface"Pigface is Pigface," says Atkins. "I've been trying to explain what it is to people for a long time, and the only way I can describe it now is to say watch the Glitch video, which is a 70-minute video take from two tours."
"I can sit and talk - John Lydon said a lot of things about what Public Image Limited was, and it was all a lie," he says. "I could talk about what Pigface is and what it isn't, but it's all bullshit until you see the video and you see 25 people on stage in Cleveland, a different 20 people on stage in Seattle with two guys playing bagpipes and people setting fire to things, different band structures and relationships every night. Until you see that, anything that I could say would just be bullshit."
Along with Atkins, the staple members of Pigface have proven to be En Esch (KMFDM), Chris Connelly (RevCo, Ministry), Willaim Tucker (Ministry, Thrill Kill Kult) and Paul Raven (Killing Joke). Other contributors have ranged from Fetchin' Bones cellist Barbara Hunter to Skinny Puppy's Nivek Ogre to Rollins Band members Andrew Weiss and Chris Haskett. With 18 people playing on the latest LP, Fook, it would seem that a Pigface live show would be complete chaos. But their most recent tour proves otherwise, as the band's sound was tight and together, while still allowing room for spontaneity. Fethin' Bones vocalist Hope Nicholls did a superb job at covering the vocal parts for the studio contributors who were not present.
By having Pigface on his own label, Atkins has the freedom to keep the band from having the problems he has experienced in the past, particularly with Pil. "I started the label because I was tired of having my ideas either ridiculously hyped up or having financial pressures or corporate musos seek to water down the music we were making as Pil for mass appeal," says Atkins. "My label and the way I conduct myself now is a direct result of spending my youth within the confines of Pil ... I'm very sorry to see what Pil has become, it embarrasses me to be honest. I thought that Pil was a force for change in the music industry. If not in the industry itself, then at least for ourselves, and I was very, very sadly disappointed when it turned out to be just a marketing scam."
Atkins cites an incident that occurred in NYC in the mid 80's as a major influence of his departure from Pil and his current view of the music industry. After a show at the Beacon Theater, Atkins was asked by an Elektra Records executive what was next for the band. When he responded that the group would probably tour for a year to promote This is What You Want, This is What You Get, Atkins was told in no uncertain terms that the LP was "dead," only a few weeks after it was released. "I just had to leave, it was very, very depressing," says Atkins.
Atkins was involved with Pil from its beginnings in 1979 until 1985, when his disgust for the business and a deteriorating relationship with John Lydon prompted him to quit. Originally, the two had been good friends, but Atkins says there was a growing lack of respect between them.
"Even with the house and the pool and the palm trees and the car in LA, I had to re-define success on my own terms. Being in Pil in LA and being miserable was obviously to me not success, so I quit," says Atkins, who added that he and Lydon do not remain in touch.
Several years later, Atkins became part of another 80's legend - Killing Joke. Murder Inc, one of Atkin's current projects (also featuring several other Pigface members) is an extension of that band. Atkins had first met Killing Joke when he was in the studio working on the Betrayed LP with Jah Wobble and Killing Joke were working on their first EP at the same location.
Although they hadn't been in touch in the interim, Atkins ended up joining the band in 1989, and released the Courtald Talks on Invisible. "I was aware of their work and they were aware of my work with PIL, so when a mutual friend was in a pub in England and ran into Geordie, he mentioned that he knew me and had my home phone number," Atkins explains. "Geordie put a strangle hold on this guy until he gave him my phone number. They called me up and said 'hey, come to London and join the band.'"
But this was near the end of Killing Joke's career, as personallity conflicts were tearing the group apart. After the first Pigface tour, Atkins returned to England to work on a Killing Joke tour and realized that he could not continue with the band. "It was very obvious to me that I didn't want to be around Jaz Coleman," says Atkins. "And so I left the band. Paul Raven then decided that if I wasn't going to be in the band he certainly didn't want to do it either."
Several months later, there were negotiations for a new Killing Joke recording contract and talk that Atkins would be involved. So Atkins returned and began working with Coleman on a budget to record in the most cost-efficient manner. According to Atkins, Coleman was looking towards unrealistically exotic locations to record and was also trying to work out a solo deal at the same time.
"Jaz's input was like 'let's go to fucking Cairo, let's record it in Cairo and then, Poland' you know, just absolute insanity," he says. "And then Jaz got involved in trying to work out a solo deal for himself. It was just screwing everything up, and I'm like 'listen, I already left the band, it's as insane as I thought it was, fuck off'. "
A few months after that, Atkins started working with guitarist Geordie Walker, who had also gotten into an argument with Coleman and decided that he didn't want to work with the singer. Then Paul Ferguson and the other members came along, and Murder Inc was born.
With Chris Connelly handling lead vocals, the band released a self-title album on Invisible last year. But while it may seem that the group is simply a revamped Killing Joke with Connelly in Coleman's place, Atkins sees it as "very much a completely new group."
"Some people think I fired Jaz or Chris replaced Jaz, and that's really not the case. It's just something that was happening over the course of a year," says Atkins.
The release of a new compilation of old Killing Joke material has fueled rumors that Coleman may re-join his former bandmates. But this is completely false, according to Atkins. "I think that a Sex Pistols reunion would be sad and pathetic and I think that a Killing Joke reunion would be similarly bizarre and hopeless," he says.
"In a very short period of time, Murder Inc went from an idea to, I think a great album," he says. "The dates that we did transformed it from a great idea that had spawned a really cool album into something that I definitely know can be a very, very dangerous, throbbing force in the market place and just completely annihilate about 98 percent of what's out there."
Running the five-year-old Invisible Records gives Atkins control over all aspects of his projects. The label has an in-house 8-track studio and capacity to print T-shirts and posters. Atkins says that Invisible handles all organization duties of recording and touring, from arranging for musicians to be flown over from England to "sitting on the phone with hotels and equipment rental companies until we get everything we want for half of what most people pay."
Atkins strongly believes that a musician must stay completely on top over the business side of things, even though some people may complain that they don't care about it and the music is the only important thing.
"It's absolute crap for them to say that," he proclaims. "If their music comes first, then they should be up all night working on spreadsheets, understanding where their money goes, how it's spent, why they're paying top price for a bus company, why aren't they in a van with a trailer because that's all the money there is, why are they paying top price for a studio, why isn't the management going out and buying the two-inch tape because if you use ten rolls of two-inch tape, I can get it for $100 cheaper than a studio will sell it to me for, and that's $1000 and that's an extra day in the studio. So people that say they don't want to dirty their hands with the business are just idiots and their money is flying out of the window."
As an example of how a lack of busness know how can jeopardize an artist's creative control, Atkins told of Killing Joke's Outside The Gate LP, which the drummer describes as "as absolutely abysmal keyboard maturbation album." Outside The Gate was originally supposed to be a Jaz Coleman solo album, but recording costs were allowed to reach over 100,000 pounds, more than a Coleman album could hope to recoup.
"The label and the managment company forced them to call it Killing Joke and release it in an attempt to get the money back," explains Atkins. "Now the fact that it very nearly destroyed that band was niether here nor there. So that's how lack of business knowledge can directly affect creative output."
A project like Pigface demands being extra carefull with the financial aspects, since bringing so many people on the road can be very expensive. But the very nature of Pigface - constant change and experimentation - adds to the burden. "We need to meet people - we met Barbara Hunter in Cincinatti - she plays cello," explains Atkins. "We had the luxury of being able to say to her 'hey, do you want to come out with us for a week? We really like your cello playing.' That's the nature of Pigface and I wouldn't want to change it. If I had to say I like your cello playing but we can't afford the $200 to fly you back from Altanta if you come out with us for a week, then what's the fucking point? Because Pigface is about interaction and experimentation. It's like a social project and if it just became a band with five of us recreating the songs from the last three albums, then it would become pointless and just a sham and just another band."
When Pigface goes out on the road, it proves to be just as much of a social venture as a musical one. Atkins says that the first few weeks are kind of like a "show and tell" as the members of the different bands interact. "It's like 'hey, Ogre's got the new Skinny Puppy album, hey how's it going, look at this video, how far can you push such and such a management company,'" explains Atkins. "It's sharing of information."
But keeping such an unorthodox band as Pigface financially stable can prove to be what Atkins describes as "a battle everyday." Atkins says that he is embarrassed that it took the financial support of a merchandising company to make the first two Pigface tours work, and that they were forced to charge $22 to $30 for T-shirts. ("I wouldn't fucking pay that. U2 shirts were only $20 for god's sake.")
But in the end, the stuggle is worth it. "The only thing that we could change with Pigface to have it not cost as much to tour is not take as many people on the road," says Atkins. "So then it's like if we're not going to take all the people that we want, what's the point? It wouldn't be Pigface."
