Received: from acs4.bu.edu (acs4.bu.edu [128.197.154.40]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.7.6/8.7.3/CNS-4.0p) with ESMTP id OAA05106 for ; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 14:05:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from conroyt@localhost) by acs4.bu.edu (8.8.4/) id QAA136920; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 16:03:14 -0400 Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 16:03:14 -0400 (EDT) From: thomas conroy Subject: Re: IVY League Class Reproduction To: socgrad@csf.colorado.edu In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Fri, 20 Jun 1997, Dave Alan Coon (: wrote: > MY father, uncle and grandfather, even my great grandfather, all hold > degrees from Cornell University (Ithaca, NY). Good for them. Cornell's a good school. > I have been told by sociology textbooks that IVY LEAGUE schools > contribute to class reproduction. They play a part in this process, as does educational attainment (both quantity and quality) more generally. > While this is certainly true to some extent,(it was in my > family), I wonder if this still holds true. Why wouldn't it? > My parents, both professionals, (my mom has a Masters Degree +30hrs, > my Dad a PhD) saved for my sister and I to go to college since before > we were born, yet they could not afford to send us to college at IVY > LEAGUE Schools, You should be glad that your family at least intended that you go to college. Not everyone is so fortunate. And there is more to getting a good higher education than studying at an Ivy League school, as fine as they are. > and the educational system in Louisiana where I was > raised (My dad grew up on Long Island, NY with a good educational > system), Perhaps, but since we are talking cultural capital, you can rest assured that there are some real drawbacks in growing up on Lawn Guyland as well; I grew up in lower middle class urban New Jersey (as did Harold Garfinkel, which he and I once chatted about) and while I may have a deep appreciation for urban environments, working class culture, cultural diversity, and Marxist theory as a result, I'm convinced that there is no perfect social environment. I once worked for a medical sociologist who grew up in rural South Dakota and she was convinced that she developed her sociological imagination from coming from farm people. > simply did not offer any of the necessary courses required to > get into Harvard, my school had trouble keeping up with the minimum > entrance requirements to LSU, much less Harvard,. No 3rd year of > foreign language was even offered one year. But since you now recognize what you might have missed, you are in a position to appreciate learning and educational opportunity all the more; it's really never too late to make up for earlier knowledge deficits, if you are so motivated. Perhaps, too, your recognition of unequal opportunity structures will make you a better sociologist and a better educator. My point is, this situation of yours has the potential to lead to some good. > And much of my college savings were wasted on car insurance my dad > says. For me to get LIABILITY ONLY coverage with Straight A student > discount and Driver's ed discount and a perfect driving record cost > over $3,000/year in Louisiana driving a Ford Taurus that was not even > worth half that amount. Isn't it true that IVY Leagues give preference to > the children of ALUMNI? I believe that they do; whether they even should or not is another matter. > I was told the Cornell PhD program in sociology only accepted people > with a batchelors not a Masters, is this true? Who knows, but the premise of your question - that a PhD admission would be determined by ascription rather than achievement - seems rather bizarre. So I'm assuming that it doesn't matter where one's parents went to college or grad school, or even whether they received a higher education to someone's admission for graduate study. > Does having alumni parents from one IVY League School help one's > chances of acceptance into another IVY LEAGUE school. My guess would be - no. But I have had only one experience of applying to an Ivy League school, and quite frankly, I wasn't even thinking about this question. In fact, I applied never expecting to get in (to Columbia) and much to my suprise and delight, I got in; I wound up choosing to come to the less prestigious (but still okay) Boston University because of the opportunity to pursue areas that were of interest to me. > It is just not fair that I can't go to an IVY LEAGUE SCHOOL because my > Dad made the stupid mistake of moving to Louisiana 27years ago (long > before I was even born). Are you saying that no one from Louisiana ever manages to wind up at an Ivy League school? As far as what is or is not fair, I would assume that your parents did not move somewhere with the expresss purpose of hindering you. Perhaps you should get over being pissed off about this. > Louisiana now has the highest poverty rate, 2nd highest incarceration > rate (after Texas), highest teen pregnancy rate, highest illiteracy rate.... > the Lowest number of internet computers in public schools.... So, why not put your sociological knowledge and skills to work doing something to alleviate some of these problems. > What are my chances of getting into a PhD Program at a prestigious > university? Are there any such chances? My GRE is low because I took it > while my grandmother is dying. Do they take the highest GRE Score,? I > thought they considered them both. Is there any hope for me to get into a > PhD program at an Ivy League School, even if I have to use student loans > to pay for it? GREs are one determinant of admission among many, but are often a key determinant in the allocation of aid, where aid decisions are somewhat competitive. > Is there anyone else out there who has parents with more prestigious > degrees than they themselves have? I know of only one other person in the > same shoes as I, with a father from Cornell and a degree from a no-name > university. Again, my most sincere advice is to get over some of your hangups about prestige and about how life is so unfair; PhD work can be enough of an emotional strain as it is without your bringing such additional baggage to it. Do yourself a favor and work through these issues first and then find a grad program where you will be happy - even if it is not an Ivy League program. Tom Conroy Boston University - Sociology Dept.