From: "Amy C. Miller" <millera@soc.umn.edu>
To: socgrad@csf.colorado.edu
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 09:00:22 -0600
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Subject: Re: Time limits and funding constraints
Reply-to: millera@soc.umn.edu
Message-ID: <16581391538@soc.umn.edu>
Alright everyone!  Let's pick this issue to pieces and move on to a
different topic!

All >quotes are from Tom Brown:

>1) How long "should" a sociology degree take to completion, given
>that budget contraints do exist?

>2) How much leeway should be built into the funding system to give
>extra support to students who run into bad luck, or who bring serious
>personal challenges along with them?

>To what extent should departmental funding support of grad
>students be made according to the challenges they face in
>their personal lives? Should people with personal problems
>extraneous to their academic endeavors be given extra money
>and extra time? How will the added costs that these outside
>problems carry be paid for?

>These are pressing policy issues that administrators have
>to deal with, in the context of a zero-sum game called
>"the budget". The budget is a real-world constraint, just
>as the students' personal problems are real-world constraints.

As far as funding goes, in my department there is plenty of funding in
the form of Teaching Assistantships, Instructorships, and Research
Assistantships, plus a variety of departmental and University
fellowships.  Our "Budget" doesn't seem to be as restricted as other
departments.  Students simply apply for funding every year, and if
they need additional funding they can request it from the department
or from faculty with research money.  There is also a considerable
amount of University funding in other departments.  Students can find
funding fairly easily for seven or more years.  Perhaps I am biased
because of this, but I don't think funding is the cause of delayed
finishing.

When my students come to me with personal problems, I tend to cut them
some slack.  I'll give them incompletes if necessary, BUT I also give
them a considerable amount of support and structure to assist them in
completing the requirements for my course.  To translate this into
graduate student experience, I must ask:

If graduate students are facing personal problems, don't they need
MORE than financial assistance?  

If you are so concerned with financial equality, then give all
students the same amount of financial aid.  For those with personal
problems - give them more GUIDANCE!  

If the students in my department received more academic guidance, we 
would not take an average of *eight* years to complete the PhD 
program.  And please, Tom, do not misconstrue what I am asking for - 
I am not asking for "hand-holding."  I am asking for more thorough 
explanations of how to write publishable papers, how to write the 
dissertation, how to obtain grants, how to manage time, etc.  I am 
talking about "career development" and the teaching of skills, NOT 
"hand-holding" or doing the work for the student.  


>The ability to "work the system" in academia is predicated on 
>understanding how the system works and doing what you have to do 
>make it work in your favor. Figuring out how the system works is not 
>that difficult. You do it by observing the social system around you, 
>locating key informants, and asking them questions. 

Figuring out how the system works CAN be difficult - as in my case as
stated below.  I spent three years of "fieldwork" figuring out how my
department worked, and I am still discovering how it works.  

>Of course, just knowing how the system works doesn't necessarily 
>mean you'll be able to work it in your favor. Of course it could be 
>made more rational and more universalistic. But this is probably the 
>stuff of a new thread. 

Making the system work in our favor in my department is quite
difficult, as my department is set up in a way that does not consider
student need.

>How can you arrive at dissertating time with no clue? These are not 
>necessarily incompetent individuals at all.  In fact, many of them 
>are very talented, but they clearly don't have their acts together.

I have an explanation for this from my own experience.  In my
department, graduate students are told VERY little about the academic
process.  We have two years of in-department required coursework and a
third year of outside required coursework.  In all of the
in-department coursework that I have taken, we were supposed to write
a "publishable" paper.  Yet HOW to write the paper was never
explained.  We were told to look at academic journals and emulate
them.  Okay, fine - but HOW?  The same thing happens with
dissertations.  No one told us what a prelim was and it took me three
years of networking and asking graduate students to finally figure out
the process.  

To make my point very clear:

Arriving at dissertation time with no clue is very easy - when you do
not have any guidance!  Almost all of the faculty members in my
department are so self-focused that they do not take advising
seriously.  A rare few take the time to nurture student's individual
work.  A RARE few.  And these few are difficult to discover and then
score for an advisorship.

>You have taken some of my words out of context and woven them into 
>a straw man. 

I too "wove your words into a straw man".  Hmph.  Don't you think it
is interesting that so many of us misunderstood your intentions?! 
Even though you think you are being clear, you might want to backpedal
a little and rethink how you say things.

Amy

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Amy C. Miller
Graduate Student
Data Center Manager
Department of Sociology
University of Minnesota
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~