Date: Mon, 18 Dec 1995 15:30:11 -0600 (CST) From: Andrew Varvel To: revs@csf.colorado.edu Subject: Re: Fw: God and atrocities Hello... It appears that there has been some serious mixing of metaphors here. The apparent paradox of "How can God be God if God is good?" and "How can God be good is God is God" is something wrestled with in the Book of Job, among other places. One problem you will have is that religion requires one to use senses other than the material five. Despite what some skeptics say, this is (in my view) scientifically valid. (If one doesn't trust one's sixth sense, how can one possibly trust the other five?) The question you ask could also be phrased "How many angels can you put on the head of a pin?" Based on what I know about various religions, the concepts in nearly all of them are the same, but the cultural vernacular for the concepts are different. Many people could have the same experience, but they would describe it differently depending on their cultural background. Mystics being touched by the same essence might call it Siva in one place, God in another, the World Soul in another, the Holy Spirit in another, and the Thunderbird in yet another. The same essence would appear to many to be separate when they really aren't. It looks as though you are being caught in traps of your own language. Beyond the languages we normally use, religions have sets of concepts (and cultural icons) that form a spiritual language. Similarly, people can have trade languages (otherwise known as jargon). Geologists speaking different languages can often communicate, as can physicists, et cetera. (Think of them as professional versions of Theives' Cant.) Good and evil is described in some places to be closeness to the World Soul or God (as opposed to apartheid). In other places, the concern is about harmony vs. disharmony, with harmony with the cosmos being desirable. In yet others, good will be described as the will of God and evil as shying away from it. Some people see evil as working against the interests of the greater society. In all of these versions, the notions of good and evil are similar. Good and evil are, by definition, not relative. If they are, then murder, genocide, mass rapes, etc. ought not to be condemned on moral grounds (since there would be no morality). However, the perceptions of people differ as to application. People rarely see themselves as evil or their enemies as good. In final analysis, my eyes are mine, not yours. I can imagine what your life may be like, and I may be able to approximate, but your eyes are not my eyes. Your question really asks what the nature of God is. Fundamentally, I cannot tell you, because no words would ever be able to describe adequately. It is not a question of faith, but rather a question of an untranslatable concept. We are trapped in the languages we use. The way we communicate with each other is through symbols, archetypes, and cultural icons whose meaning may have radically different relevance for you and me. The way I would describe anything on this level would be metaphorical and poetic, and would lose a certain amount of meaning in prose. If I could communicate with you in terms of pure thought, perhaps you could understand what I am saying. I do hope, though, that you are trying to understand something. --AV--