Message-ID: <51792E5D4B6ED011B7DB00805FBE3836040EC0C7@xch-evt-06.ca.boeing.com>
From: "Van Zant, Peter J" <Peter.VanZant@PSS.Boeing.com>
To: PROGRESSIVE POPULATION NETWORK <ppn@csf.colorado.edu>,
        "'nicka@well.com'" <nicka@well.com>
Subject: RE: Overconsumption vs Overpopulation?
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 10:11:02 -0800
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
I have thought about having everybody start out with no wealth inherited
from previous generations as one of the ways of implementing a constant
population society. Personally, I'm not against it--in fact, I rather like
it--but the chances of getting it accepted, at least now, are absolutely
nil. Go ahead, write your congressperson and suggest it, write an op-ed
piece for your local paper. At least, that gets it out on the table.
However, I'm afraid the howls of outrage will dorwn out any discussion very
fast.
> ----------
> From: 	Nicholas C. Arguimbau[SMTP:nicka@well.com]
> Sent: 	Thursday, November 19, 1998 9:26 AM
> To: 	PROGRESSIVE POPULATION NETWORK
> Subject: 	RE: Overconsumption vs Overpopulation?
> 
> How about the profit motive with 100% taxes on estates?  That would give
> everyone a "level playing field" at birth.  The problem with the profit
> motive is that it requires less motive for more profit if you are
> initially wealthy, and ultimately converts a democracy into a "one dollar,
> one vote" society.
> 
> On Thu, 19 Nov 1998, Van Zant, Peter J wrote:
> 
> > 
> > 
> > > ----------
> > > From: 	rc&am[SMTP:rcollins@netlink.com.au]
> > > Sent: 	Thursday, November 19, 1998 5:31 AM
> > > To: 	PROGRESSIVE POPULATION NETWORK
> > > Subject: 	Re: Overconsumption vs Overpopulation?
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Ted Toal wrote:
> > > 
> > > > From my studies of economics, I believe that
> > > > profit maximization usually provides the most efficient way to get
> to a
> > > goal.
> > > 
> > > it seems to me that the only goal of profit maximisation is profit
> > > maximisation,
> > > and even then, given the effects and preconditions of such a goal, it
> > > regularly
> > > fails to attain even that goal.  as for capital accumulation being an
> > > efficient and
> > > effective system for the fulfillment of needs and enjoyment (and i
> don't
> > > moralise
> > > about the goodness of certain 'lifestyles' over others), well... you
> must
> > > be
> > > kidding.
> > > 
> > > angela
> > > 
> > I think we have to give the profit motive its due as a way of motivating
> > people. It creates a lot of problems, too, like making greed the emotion
> of
> > choice for society--actually, I don't think greed is an emotion, but
> that's
> > another conversation. However, for motivating someone to work hard over
> a
> > period of time, financial gain works pretty well. It's better than
> forcing
> > him/her to work. Idealistic notions, like doing the work for the
> betterment
> > of humanity, unfortunately lose their potency pretty fast.
> > 
> > 
>