Received: from netlink.com.au (merlin.netlink.com.au [203.16.172.196]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.8.5/8.8.4/CNS-4.1p-nh) with ESMTP id WAA19381 for ; Wed, 11 Nov 1998 22:51:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from netlink.com.au (h115.mel.netlink.com.au [203.62.225.115]) by netlink.com.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA03289 for ; Thu, 12 Nov 1998 16:55:56 +1100 Message-ID: <364A770A.34A52C33@netlink.com.au> Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 16:50:02 +1100 From: rc&am Reply-To: rcollins@netlink.com.au MIME-Version: 1.0 To: PROGRESSIVE POPULATION NETWORK Subject: [Fwd: overpopulation] Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------53A6D2AF18D74BD1AE5DDC84" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------53A6D2AF18D74BD1AE5DDC84 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --------------53A6D2AF18D74BD1AE5DDC84 Content-Type: message/rfc822; name="nsmail7Q.TMP" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline; filename="nsmail7Q.TMP" X-POP3-Rcpt: rcollins@merlin Return-Path: Received: from kryten.ipax.com.au (kryten.ipax.com.au [203.29.72.3]) by netlink.com.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id HAA23340 for ; Thu, 12 Nov 1998 07:45:38 +1100 Received: from server01.rie.net.au (server01.rie.net.au [203.30.170.10]) by kryten.ipax.com.au (8.6.11/8.6.9) with ESMTP id GAA22683; Thu, 12 Nov 1998 06:52:28 +1100 Received: from vucqprlj ([203.30.170.50]) by server01.rie.net.au (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id HAA07545; Thu, 12 Nov 1998 07:39:06 +1100 From: "margaret" To: "Ed Glaze III" , Cc: Subject: Re: overpopulation Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 06:19:34 -0800 Message-ID: <01be0e47$793c1480$LocalHost@vucqprlj> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 >Hello there, > Thought you might like some more information on the pamphlet mentioned. I am one of the distributors and have contacted the editor who got the publication together so she may respond herself. " A New Face of Eugenics: The Myth of Overpopulation - A Collection of Articles About Attempts to Control the Bodies and Fertility of Third World Women; is a selection of articles which challenge, in various ways, mainstream Western notions of overpopulation. The views presented are varied and sometimes contradictory, which unlike explanations presented in the mainstream media may require some though on the part of the reader. Since the dominant Western discourse son population levels, poverty in the Third World and the state of the environment tends to be the voices of rich white men, using so-called scientific evidence and objectivity; the following articles are (mostly) deliberately the voices of those most affected - poor women and women of colour. These voices are rarely heard in the West, even in so-called "activist" circles, and it is perhaps for this reason that many Western activists, be they feminists or environmentalists have not challenged traditional racist and sexist notions of overpopulation. Conservatism on this issue amongst many feminists and environmentalists has allowed the engineers of eugenci depopulating policies to co-opt the language and ideas of these movements, and sometimes even their direct support." From the Introduction. Contents: 1. New Shift in Depopulating Strategy - Introduction: in the context of Bangladesh Cyclone by Farida Akhter, reprinted from Depopulating Bangladesh - Essays on the Politics of Fertility and Reproductive Rights.1996. Narigrantha Prabartana, 2/8 Sir Syed Road, Mohammadpur, Dhaka 1207, Bangladesh Tel 318428 Fax 880-2-813065. 2. Family Planning: Population Control in Drag by David Morrison http://www.pop.org/students/contrary.html 3. UBINIG: Declaration of the People's Perspectives on "Population" Symposium; reprinted from Radically Speaking: Feminism Reclaimed, edited by Diane Bell and Renate Klein, Spinifex Press, Victoria 1996. 4. People or Population: Towards a new Ecology of reproduction by Maria Miles and Vandana Shiva, reprinted from Ecofeminism. 5. Racism, Birth Control and Reproduction (excerpt) by Angela Davis, reprinted from Women, Race and Class, The Women's Press, London 1981. 6. Politic of "Population" as a number and "Ecology" as the crisis of the natural system (excerpt) by Farida Akhter reprinted from Depopulating Bangladesh (details given above). Given the present 1998 floods in Bangladesh; the Farida Akhter article seems reinforced, today we hear the same "too many poor people cause environmental destruction" media-massaged ideology which is the agenda of eugenic, racist and anti-poor exploiters. The other articles are also still pertinent. You wrote: >Didn't you notice in my message about the book that I said, >"it seems he (?) is promoting a booklet?" When you did not put >your name at the end of your post how was I to know you were >a female. I think I did the right thing by saying I was not familiar >with you and putting a question mark after he. Unfortunately it >is a widely known fault of the English language that there is not >a gender neutral personal pronoun. > To prejudge someone to be male or female says most about the prejudice of the person who assumes to know which, is then defensive to be corrected, competitive in contrast of ideas adn authoritarian in concluding to exclude the subjects of "over population" over half the world are women! English language, the language of imperialism was enforced on the Scottish, Welsh, Cornish, Irish through land enclosures, military and industrial conscription. Bloody trade war expansion in Europe and then to Americas, Africa and Asia made it the language of white men. Continuing with the growth of US based Corporate capitalism ensured all trade related movement ie air-traffic, shipping, telephone exchanges, now computer and satellite developments are primarily the same continuous racket. Derided as "political correctness" attempts by women, indigenous peoples, people of colour, gays & lesbians, to modify language for their own culture is denounced as divisive eg something as simple as Canadians speaking two languages ie French and English or officially recognising Spanish as second language in US (why do "Latin Americans" speak Spanish & Portuguese, same bloody history of European trade war expansion... >I also posted URLs and other information about Barricade Books >to make it easier for others to find out more about the book you >mentioned. Your initial post would have been better if you had >included such information along with a review of the book. I will >assume that you did read it since it was only 36 pages. > Thanks for passing on the information. >You are right about my certainty that overpopulation is a fact and >is threatening the world. I am not sure how it could be otherwise. >We have 6 billion people growing to 9 billion within most of our >lifetimes. We can witness or read about the vast environmental >degradation that has already taken place and will continue. > If Industrial Society collapsed due to a Y2 computer crash the "over population" would be seen as not a problem for a Military Tyranny ie "soylent green" we eat the numbers into "military intelligence" (oxymoron!) official balance! Or a better scenario, we only eat, or at least compost, the "overpopulated" rich, abolish all Borders and allow people to move freely so they can live in sustainable bioregional areas instead.The rich have always tried to lock the poor out of land they originally owned as indigenous people and were evicted from. >I do not doubt that some of the problems suffered by women, >such as those you mention, are serious and examples of abuse. >I do not deny that there are many problems with the increasing >wealth and power of multinational corporations and the financial >establishment such as the IMF. Pharmaceutical companies also >need to test their procedures and in some cases they may be >doing so in methods that take advance of the poor or others. Good at least your ears and eyes are open to the world. >However, I do not agree that these are reason that allow you an >easy dismissal overpopulation as a factor in the problems faced >around the world. > Well that is where you seem to "lose the plot" for me! >Never is overpopulation cited on death certificates as the >cause of death and yet it is obvious that almost all factors >of a society are changed by conditions of overpopulation. Well, "poverty" is never cited either more to the point...in Indonesia to North of Australia at present most people are only eating one poor meal a day while the military eat very well, the rich eat unbelievably well. Is this due to "overpopulation" or the corrupt system of capitalism there? Really!! >Food, water, and resources become more scarce as the >competition increases on the local, regional and international >scales. When there is an ever increasing number of people >the liberties and worth accorded to an individual decreases. >Is it right, no, but it does happen. > Let us turn the golf courses of the world into gardens, grow food trees in every street instead of queueing up to eat expensive, unsustainable, genetically modified crap from supermarkets! >The problems of the poor are worsened by increasing growth, >especially unneeded births, within their families and in their >countries. With no "welfare" State the majority of the people in the world want big families as traditionally families are needed to support each other. If you want to be looked after in your old age you have kids as a basis for community or do you prefer the misery of "nursing homes" run for profit. What about free choice of euthenasia, what about freedom for abortion, contraception decided by women not the Church or State or in your case what about vasectomy? Funny how "sterilisation" of the poor is encouraged but not vasectomy for the ruling male elite now why is that? Duh! Excess population places many demands on the >infrastructure of a country which often cannot keep up. New >schools, additional jobs, and increased food supply are just a >few of examples of the difficulties that politicians everywhere >must deal with when population grows. Population, and immigration, increase jobs, share resources. Here in Australia we have had bigots from the Campaign Against Further Immigration also use such "ecological" arguments. Big lies in their case for a racist agenda, many joined the One Nation Party and opposed "multiculturalism", "single mothers", "special treatment for Aboriginals" "Asianisation" of Australia etc bigoted crap. So when I hear such arguments I see where they have lead here - what are your political interests? >That should not be too difficult to understand but it is difficult to deal with. Perhaps we need a "Green Hitler"? (NOT!) You do know the Nazis saved the Black Forest, encouraged organic food farming, stopped vivisection etc but alas replaced animals with people for experiments, murdered or sterilised "over populating" under classes of their fucked racial hierarchy? >Many countries have cultures that are pro-natalist for religious or other reasons. >Thus the people want to have multiple children and through these >personal decisions contribute to overpopulation and make the >conditions in their country that much tougher. Whether the people >having the kids are rich or poor does not matter, except in the >scale of lifetime consumption which will be much worse for the rich. > Gee can I be rich kid instead of poor, ironically Tuberculosis used to be called "consumption" a reduced lifetime was ensured if you were poor. Do you recommend the rich get TB instead of the poor or are you referring to ostentatious wealth of yuppy types. Really large scale waste is done by military-industrial complex after all. >I do not have an MBA and did not say that I did, though you might >have thought my business management degree was an MBA. >I did drop out of an MBA program when I decided that I did not >want to live a life that required three-piece suits and keeping up >with the Joneses. I have never sought out a high paying job and >have been a very active civic volunteer for many years. > Gee nice to know you have the time, free from poverty (which means you spend most of your life selling your labour), to be a volunteer how about the rest of the world get the same choice..Can I choose to travel freely without a passport as we used to be able to before the First World War (no Gypsy types allowed here!) but too many "agitators", and "ghastly poor people" were getting about, so it had to be run by the State and made profitable for the Corporations. Only "political refugees" (not "economic refugees") are sometimes tolerated. Women escaping arranged marriage or other sexist practices are not allowed official status of course. >The reason I feel I have "the low-down on the facts" about >overpopulation is that I am very well read on the issue. For over >20 years I have been reading environmental books and specializing >in population issues. My personal circumstances and lifestyle have >allowed me the time to do some extensive reading and attend college >to further my education. > How nice for you. The Catholic Church (which is racist, sexist, homophobic etc but is "pro-population") is overpopulated with men whose personal circumstances and lifestyle allow them too "time to do extensive reading and extend their education" despite some differences, you share more in common perhaps than you admit too wanting to control women? >I also browse the internet for population items to share with others. >Did you bother to follow up on any of the URLs I listed in my >earlier posts? They are there to help people become better >informed about population issues. > Disinformation can also be found on the internet. >The demographic trends we face are backed up by scientific >reasoning which is rigorous enough o indicate that there really is >a serious problem. Nothing I have read has been able to convince >me that there is not an overpopulation problem. Just as nothing has >convinced me there is a god. People, for whatever reason, may be >optimistic and attribute the environmental crisis we are in the middle >of to some other factors but I want more than faith. Denial of the >problem does not seem realistic and that is why I seek substantiation >of contrarian views, like those in the booklet you mention. > You seem to have replaced one God (religion) for another (science) yet there is a "third alternative" to question both (no God, No Master!) If a small number of people can get State Power, declare war on their enemies, is that a way to reduce "overpopulation"? or really just a way to keep power!? >There is ample credible writing available which convinces me that >Malthus was not wrong. Whoah - misanthropy! >The conditions that he was concerned about >still exist today and through our excess population we are likely to >exhaust or diminish the non-renewable resources (oil, fresh water, >arable land, rubber, biodiversity, etc) on which our economic societies >depend. Are we exploited and our exploiters equally to blame, should all be "punished"? We have yet to fully pay the price for our foolishness for thinking >we were exempt from the laws of nature. Which laws are they, the law of gravity (repealed by technology) "survival of the fittest" bullshit or really widespread in nature and indigenous society: mutual aid instead? >Our technology has delayed the Malthusian prediction but we have not invalidated it. Hello! Weapons of mass destuction, have delayed misanthropy? For more info on Malthus and how relevant his predictions still are: > Get a life! >Beyond Malthus: > Sixteen Dimensions of the Population Problem > Worldwatch Paper 143 > > >The Social Contract >Volume VIII, Number 3, Spring, 1998: >Theme: Malthus Revisited > > > >________ Ed Glaze > Port Mansfield, TX >"If they don't understand the severity of the problem, >they won't understand the severity of the solution. >Overpopulation must be dealt with." > >(snipped the previous messages -- we have copies of them already) > >------------------------------ > >Below is a population article from Australia that you might have missed. >Unfortunately the Canberra Times does not offer an online search. > > Canberra Crimes is owned by? Pushes the ideology of which class of people in our society? Encourages journalists of which grovelling, non-investigative" (aka "gutless") ilk etc? > >SLOWING THE POPULATION TITANIC >by Tom Gosling >Canberra (Australia) Times -- October 10, 1998 >Copyright 1998 The Canberry Times > > In the movie Titanic the captain, E.J. Smith, receives radio >warnings about icebergs but ignores them because he has been told by the >ship's owner to increase speed. > After ordering the last four boilers lit, Smith pockets the radio >messages and retires to his cabin, a pathetic figure soon to go down with >his ship. > The theme is familiar -- supreme confidence in technology, a >vainglorious conviction that size and power will conquer everything, >deafness to the voices of caution and whammo! -- Mother Nature proves yet >again that she has an ace up her sleeve. > It was precisely to oppose this "bigger, faster and to hell with >the consequences" mentality that a courageous band of souls assembled 10 >years ago. > The half-dozen founding members of Australians for an >Ecologically Sustainable Population first met in the Canberra suburb of >Bruce on October 12, 1988. They resolved to try to convince the public that >Australia's population growth should be halted as soon as possible, and that >the Australian Government should increase foreign aid related to restricting >global population growth. The message has been dismissed as "pessimistic" by >many -- even by some in the environment movement -- but has found >influential supporters. > Opening AESP's national conference in Sydney last year. NSW >Premier Bob Carr congratulated it for raising the issue. "We've got to >dispose once and for all,' he said, "of the notion that Australia is an >underpopulated continent, an empty continent waiting to be filled up." > It's a view that has found support also from some of the icons of >Australian public life: Nugget Coombs, Manning Clark, A.D. Hope, Sir >Macfarlane Burnet, Professor Frank Fenner, Sir Mark Oliphant (who opened the >first national conference in Canberra in 1989) and Judith Wright (AESP's >patron). > Coombs, back in 1977, called for population growth to be >"halted...and stabilized at an ecologically safe level" and in 1988 Wright >complained that the need to control population growth had "not even been >recognized by governments. > "Australia is perhaps one of the last countries on Earth in a >position to ensure that its population does not exceed its resources," she >said. "With its enormous problems of land degradation, water and rising >pollution levels, Australia is far from being limitless." > Others who share this view have included Sydney University >professors Charles Birch and Jonathon Stone. In 1994, the Australian >Academy of Science recommended the Australian Academy of Science recommended >that Australia encourage contraception and limit its net annual immigration >too so that the population would stabilize at 23 million in the year 2040. > More recently, author Tim Flannery, whose book and TV series The >Future Eaters have been widely acclaimed, has argued that Australia's >long-term sustainable population is probably well below its present size. >Professor Ian Lowe, chairman of Australia's first State of the Environment >report, commissioned by the Federal Government, has voiced serious concern >about the environmental impact of population growth. John Coulter, former >leader of the Australian Democrats, went further to become AESP's president >in 1996. > AESP's numbers have grown from the original six to 900, and it >has added branches in Sydney, Melbourne, Adelaide, Perth, south-east >Queensland, Townsville and cairns, yet it has failed (perhaps because of its >insistence on a non-racist immigration policy) to burst upon the national >consciousness in the way one Nation has. May I draw your attention back to my comment about One Nation and its "overpopulation" anti-immigration" etc tendencies. The journalist is too lazy to even draw in the similarities let alone challange this bullshit. For example what indigenous Australians have called alarm at "overpopulation"? Instead they see the way the Colonisers have abused the land and water for profit as key to the problems not "immigration" etc. > A major obstacle, it believes, is that powerful commercial >interests particularly in real estate, construction and the media are >applying strong pressure on the leadership of both major political parties >to ensure that Australia's population growth continues, even accelerates, >regardless of the environmental consequences and regardless of the opinions >of the passengers. AESP, funded entirely by donations and modest membership >fees, has held conferences, sponsored public lectures and debates, lobbied >politicians, issued press statements, prepared submissions for inquiries, >written articles and letters to editors, distributed leaflets just about >everything a group can do to get across its message, short of demonstrations >and standing for Parliament. > In terms of what has happened in population growth, however, it >has had about as much success as the radio operators had in slowing down the >Titanic. > During most of the 10 years of AESP's existence, Australia has >had the world's highest per-capita rate of immigration, and our population >has grown by 2.3 million to 18.8 million. The rate of population growth >slowed during the decade, but is showing signs of picking up again. The >annual growth rate peaked at 1.7 per cent in 1989, and slowed gradually to >1.1 per cent last year. > The latest Australian Bureau of Statistics figures, however, show >it increasing again. Last month's Australian Demographic Statistics give >our population rate as 1.2 per cent and our net overseas migration is more >than having been down to less than in 1997. > In combination with a relatively high fertility rate for OECD >nations (1.77 children per woman) Australia's population is on track to >continue rapid growth. At the current rate, our population will be about 27 >million, and growing, by the middle of next century. It's a depressing >prospect for the "father" of AESP., retired CSIRO soil scientist Dr. Chris >Watson. > Now 63, he was responsible for monitoring the soils of the Murray >Irrigation Area in the 1970's: "I could see the land deteriorating before my >very eyes, with increasing salinity, especially around Deniliquin and >northern Victoria." > A few years later he became a councilor of the Australian >Conservation Foundation and, at its quarterly meetings in Melbourne, struck >up a friendship with a like-minded Monash University sociology professor Bob >Birrell. > When Bob Birrell came to the ANU's Centre for Resource and >Environment Studies for a year's sabbatical in 1987-88, they started a >newsletter Population Stability for Australia, which spawned AESP. Watson >says, "I found I couldn't get many people interested at CSIRO, or in science >circles generally, but I did notice that there were people writing letters >to the Canberra Times so I phoned them and asked them if they wanted to form >a group. I didn't get a single knock-back." > The first meeting of AESP. was held at the home of radar engineer >Greg Dunstone and librarian wife Eileen. Those present included poet Mark >O'Conner, retired Bureau of Mineral Resources geologist Hugh Oldham, >Australian Democrats political adviser Jenny Goldie (formerly Jenny >Macleod), a former assistant secretary in the Immigration Department, >Duncan Waddell, and CSIRO staff member Peter Martin. > O'Conner says, "We didn't realize the intense negativity of much >of the media. At first, the letters to the editor page, especially of The >Canberra Times, was one of the few places where these new ideas were >permitted. > "We've also held our membership against a long-entrenched >ideology of growth from newspapers like The Australian, which has >consistently run a propaganda campaign on the virtues of high immigration." > As an example, he cited ALP leader Kim Beazley's announcement >earlier this year that the ALP would introduce an environmentally >responsible population policy when next in office. > "It drew a fierce response from senior Murdoch journalists, with >opinion headlines like ‘too many fogeys, not enough people' " he says. >"Beazley subsequently changed his tune, announcing in August that he was in >favor in increased immigration.." > He says thee is also something "deeply wrong" in the culture of >some parts of the ABC's news and current-affairs sections: "You could tune >into a whole year of the ABC's TV News and 7.30 Report and discover only >that our high immigration policy is good and inevitable, and that anyone who >questions it is probably a secret member of the Hitler Youth League. > "The vast majority of Australians who oppose high immigration are >misrepresented as a small and suspect minority, while the tiny minority who >endorse it are falsely misrepresented as responsible mainstream opinion." > Another active early ESP. member was poet, broadcaster and 1997 >Canberran of the Year Anne Edgewroth, who says it is "logical" that ESP., >now a national organization, began in Canberra. > "Canberra is unique. It's larger than a country town but smaller >than any of the other capital cities, so it's still comparatively easy to >get from one end to the other," she says. "It's always had a highly >educated population because of the Public Service and the universities, and >it's always had an attraction for writers; and it has a very pleasant >physical environment there's this quality of the city, surrounded by the >Brindabellas and the alps, which places it apart in a way." > Concern about population only "crept up fairly gradually" on >Duncan Waddell. > He says he began to think seriously about it when he was senior >immigration officer at the Australian consulate in New York from 1966 to >1969: "I became aware of America's huge conurbations and the pressures of >population in those tremendous cities, and I began to wonder whether this >was a direction we ought to be heading in. I gradually realized we were >going to end up with wall-to-wall people, which seemed to me a pretty >horrible prospect. We were destroying all the farmlands and the forests and >the wild places and all the other species, and pretty soon there would be >nothing but people." > The greatest single step forward in ESP's development has been >the establishment in 1996 of the Sustainable Population Fund under the >triple trusteeship of former Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander >Commission chairwoman Dr. Loitja O'Donoghue, (ah nice token, bureaucrat, even One Nation found an Aboriginal person to speak on their platform, just as the Liberal Party found Sir Neville Bonner or before that "black trackers" were used by the State police to hunt down and kill "uncontrollables" who the white cops could not catch otherwise.) Canberra lawyer Margaret >Brewster, and University House Master Rafe de Crespigny. > The fund, which for the first time has allowed tax deductibility >to be claimed for donations to ESP, has attracted major donations from >individuals, and the money has been used to set up a national office in >Canberra and pay a full-time employee, national director Edwina Barton. > Barton says that although ESP. has undoubtedly raised the level >of public discussion of population growth, in one way its very success has >worked against it because the "pro-growth lobby" has intensified its >efforts, in the last two years in particular. > "What we are seeing now is a massively resourced backlash by the >pro-growth lobby to regain public and political support for endless >population growth," she says. "The big problem for us is that we don't have >the human or financial resources to match them." Founding member Hugh >Oldham says, "ESP. has at least made a big dent in the smugness of the >pro-growthers and that's as much as I thought we'd ever be able to do. Most >politicians don't want to listen to what we are saying because they don't >think it will produce anything useful for them in three years." > >Yes must have been a nice "long lunch" and drinkies with the media massagers who got this hack to parrot back all this. Should be a career in there for them in the New World Order alright. Real decision choice here for them which media Baron do I go for Kerry packer richest man in Austrlaia who owns half Australian media or with Rupert Murdoch, now US citrizen, who owns other half? >----------------------------------------------------------------- >NPG Population-News Listserve http://www.npg.org >To subscribe: send e-mail to MAJORDOMO@NPG.ORG >with the message text: subscribe population-news >----------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > --------------53A6D2AF18D74BD1AE5DDC84--