>From joeh@towel.wpd.sgi.com Thu Jun 30 11:59:29 1994 Return-Path: joeh@towel.wpd.sgi.com Received: from sgigate.sgi.com (sgigate.SGI.COM [192.82.208.1]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.6.9/8.6.9/CNS-3.5) with ESMTP id LAA03856 for ; Thu, 30 Jun 1994 11:59:25 -0600 Received: from relay.sgi.com (relay.sgi.com [192.26.51.36]) by sgigate.sgi.com (940519.SGI.8.6.9/8.6.4) with SMTP id KAA28997; Thu, 30 Jun 1994 10:58:16 -0700 Received: from towel.wpd.sgi.com by relay.sgi.com via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for @sgigate.sgi.com:ppn@csf.colorado.edu id AA20449; Thu, 30 Jun 94 10:58:11 -0700 Received: by towel.wpd.sgi.com (931110.SGI/911001.SGI) for @relay.sgi.com:ppn@csf.colorado.edu id AA11728; Thu, 30 Jun 94 10:58:09 -0700 From: joeh@towel.wpd.sgi.com (Joe Heinrich) Message-Id: <9406301058.ZM11726@towel.wpd.sgi.com> Date: Thu, 30 Jun 1994 10:58:08 -0700 In-Reply-To: Behan Pamela "Re: fertility in U.S." (Jun 29, 15:39) References: Mabell: 415.390.4347 Ddial Xface: FFFF_FFFF_FFFF_FFFF(modulo zed) 64 bits o' black Personal_Life: Virtually Virtuous Mime.Audio: MmmwwoooweeeeEEEoooweeeeeOOOO [makes you feel like you're RIGHT there!] Pabell: 004 000 008dot005 005 009dot008 007 007 000(sub9) Ohhnoooo: It's not poetry, it's Boot PROM code! Oops: Iobject!Iobject! Geek_Alert: I once spoke to Kibo (over e-mail!) X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.1b.0 21jan94 MediaMail) To: ppn@csf.colorado.edu Subject: Re: fertility in U.S. Cc: joeh@towel.wpd.sgi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 Folks-- Isn't fertility the *capability* to reproduce? Is it commonly used here to denote the *act* of reproduction (birth)? > Paradoxically, I think you could say that the U.S. encourages fertility > among those who have enough resources to afford children, but enough other > satisfactions to not particularly want them. I think you could say that > the U.S. discourages and punishes fertility among those who have little > else, and greatly desire children. It then punishes the children for > their poverty, recreating the whole cycle..... > > Pamela Behan I think we also need to define what is subsumed in the word "culture" before we can start cataloguing its effects. For instance, does culture include the people pushing shopping carts and living in appliance boxes in the vacant field behind my house? They don't want kids, and that has nothing to do with the undependability of their partners. Does it include the Latin-Americans hanging around outside Home Depot down the street hoping to be selected for spotwork? Talk to them, and they feel they belong to one long extended family, stretching from here to Patagonia. Public policy, of course, is another thing. > > I don't think that the culture and public policy in the U.S. can be said > to exactly support having children. Although having children remains a > desired norm, the culture seems to support doing so only if you can also > provide them with a home in the suburbs, educational vacations, expensive > shoes, Nintendo, an orthodontist, etc., etc. > "Punishment," undefined in this context, seems problematic too. --Joe -- Joe "Joe" Heinrich Almost Online:HTTP://towel.wpd.sgi.com Flatland: joeh@sgi.com Rotary dial: 415.390.4347 DTMF:SameAsAbove BLM Locator:Building8Lower SnailMail:MS/535, 2011 N. Shoreline Blvd., Mt. View, CA 94043