Interview With Nicolas Bautista Rodriguez, Military Representative Of Colombia's National Liberation Army (ELN) (This interview was published in the mainstream media on September 4, 1997.) Why does the ELN carry out kidnappings? Every war, as anyone knows, must solve economic problems. We are of the opinion that the oligarchy in this country has enriched itself at the cost of the civilian population. We oppose this situation from a revolutionary viewpoint. We cannot accept the fact that extreme luxury can exist side by side with immense poverty. We are of the opinion that those in power, the capitalists, those that have accumulated vast riches, must contribute to the revolutionary struggle. That's why we detain capitalists, entrepreneurs, people who have lots of money, executives from multinational corporations. We want them to pay taxes to the revolutionary movement. It's logical that this is very hard on their families. We know this, but we do have a motive: The revolutionary struggle has concrete requirements, and we acquire those from people who have illegally enriched themselves, who have built their luxury on the exploitation of many workers. We believe that we have a reason for doing this, whether or not such actions are understood throughout the country or not. We have a principle that we do not carry out actions for revenge or just because someone is the relative of a certain person. We categorically reject actions based on revenge. Do you believe that your struggle still represents a political project? What relevance does your struggle have today? Recently, a high-ranking military official said that the problems in the regions of conflict cannot be solved through force alone, rather that social investment is needed and that the social problems of the population must be solved. That's interesting, because that's precisely why people struggle. From this point of view, one can understand why the dreams or the possibility of change have not disappeared from the horizon. It would be contradictory and absurd to stop now, to tell the people to accept this capitalism, this social reality. A vulgar submission to the USA would be tragic given the desperate social reality in the country. We will continue to fight against those things which affect us in a negative manner, those things which only bring benefits to a very few. We will gather forces so that things will change, so that we can enjoy a life of true happiness, security, and patriotism. In Colombia, everyone speaks of peace. Everyone wants peace, everyone is willing to contribute towards it. You say the same thing, but it's clear that peace will require concessions and compromises. What concessions are you willing to make? In this country, it has been proven time and again that those in power are only willing to make compromises when there is a counter-power which won't allow them to decide things on their own. That's why it's wrong to speak of peace and think that we will just hand in our weapons, because the government will never hesitate to use its guns when strikes, demonstrations, and other struggles take place and those in power feel threatened. As soon as they start to share their wealth with the population, then peace will be possible. I hope this very much. That's what the liberal guerrillas during the 1948-53 civil war wanted, but after they handed in their weapons, they were massacred. I think that what happened during the last guerrilla demobilization makes the problem very clear. That was no solution. And I don't see a possibility for peace with this government either, just as with the last one, no matter what they say. It's not a matter of sending invitations for peace talks, rather making it clear what they mean when they speak of peace. Two weeks ago a statistic was released which said that 85% of all violent deaths have nothing to do with the conflict between the government and the guerrilla. In other words, 85% of the violence is social reality. For us, peace does not mean demobilizing the guerrilla. On the contrary, I am convinced that doing so would weaken the left, increase the violence, and leave the people without protection. The right-wing would grow stronger and eradicate anything which endangered it. That has been the strategy of the oligarchy and the military up until now. We haven't seen calls for peace lead to social change. We haven't seen invitations to talks lead to better conditions for the political prisoners. We don't see any infrastructure changes or development policies for the country. Where are results of the agreements the government made with the people in Llanos, when the guerrilla demobilized there? What about the deals made with the peasant population in Catatumbo? And where are the results of Samper's promises to the people in southern Bolivar? And what about the measures the government agreed to with the workers in the spring? Words and deeds are different. On the one hand, the government purchases helicopters and airplanes, herbicides are sprayed, villages are depopulated; on the other hand, they talk of peace. It was the same way with the politicians before the last elections; or as the saying goes, "They promise bridges where there are no rivers." But at the same time, the guerrilla forces are accused of barbaric acts of war, for example blowing up oil pipelines, extortion, kidnapping, terrorist acts against civilians, the use of mines, and so on. The cycle of accusations is endless. Is there a way to break out of this? I am absolutely sure that if the government would engage itself in those regions where we have established a revolutionary counter-power, if they would attempt to solve the social problems, then there would be no need for the guerrilla. Because no one supports a struggle that isn't needed. Who wants to sacrifice his- or herself for something that has no meaning? No one would. The guerrilla has support because of the suffering in the rural and the urban areas. You can't go to people and say "Fight for education!" if they already have education, or "Fight for a school, a road, public services!" if these things are already in place. But in the areas we went to there was no canalization, no clean water. That means, some people have these things, some do not. That means, those who don't have these things will fight for them, because they aren't willing to simply perish. It's that simple. As long as this reality doesn't change, the struggle will continue, whether it's in this country or in another part of the world, even if military violence is able to suppress it temporarily. What does the ELN think about the creation of a state Peace Council, which will push the peace policies of the government? This has been proposed by Defense Minister Echeverry. We say that's fine. But who, really, needs to address the problem of peace? Those in power and their two weapons, the military and the paramilitary. The Colombian people don't want war. We don't want war. Who wants to live their entire life the way we do? No one. But the problem, as I said before, is the social injustice which exists. If the state or the government or those is power would understand that it's not about saying nice things to convince the rebels to hand in their guns, rather it's about ending social inequality, then we'd reach an agreement very soon without too much discussion. (Translated by Arm The Spirit from 'Colombia Popular' - http://www.berlinet.de/eln/)