COUSINS ISSUE #13 - August 1993 pt2

Susan Gross Gavula
Merry Meet Cousins all!  I've just been reading all the back issues of 
this wonderful letterzine.  I had the best time at Weekend in Sherwood; 
coming to the party and finding out about Cousins.  So many neat ideas 
come from sharing thoughts with other friendly folks :) 

Interesting ideas that I wouldn't have thought of without talking to 
folks at the Weekend in Sherwood...

Robin didn't die on the Tor, but that someone came and found him and 
healed him.  Now, I love Robin (and Michael) but my thought was always 
that the way to save him was to make sure that he wasn't trapped on the 
Tor.  But hey, if they can raise Belleme, why not Robin?

I always felt that Herne wasn't fair to either Robert or Robin; I know, 
gods don't have to be fair, but...  I would have liked to see Robert 
become a part of the band while Robin was still around so that he 
wouldn't have to deal with the pressure of being the leader of the band 
as well as having to earn their trust.
  
I really liked the idea of Robin  and the bow, and Robert and the 
sword... it really sparks off some thoughts...

Some thoughts on Marion and the Craft.  It seems that she had an 
extensive knowledge of herbology, which if I remember correctly would 
have been a part her education along with learning how to manage a 
household, etc.  Marion is a smart woman and I would expect that she 
would be curious and interested in learning the "old ways" as she has 
seen more and more evidence of them.  Perhaps someone in Wickham could 
have taught her; maybe she learned how to incorporate their pagan 
beliefs with Christian ones, just as most of the villagers do anyway.  
Also, I never thought that Marion really held any strong Christian 
beliefs.  I'd guess that the Church was just a convenient refuge for 
her to avoid an unwanted marriage.  Thoughts, anyone?

On to another subject:  Tarot.  I use the Robin Wood deck, the Hanson-
Roberts deck, and the Arthurian Tarot.  I would dearly love an RoS 
deck.  Here are some ideas I've had for cards:  Robin as the Magician, 
Herne as the Hierophant, Much as the Sun, Robert and Marion as the 
Lovers, Sherwood shrouded in the mists for the World, Robin and Marion 
as the 2 of Cups, Lilith as the Moon, and Belleme as the Devil, or 
perhaps Lucifer himself.

I'm working on a RoS ritual right now and I thought I'd share with you 
my choices for the Quarters, and the Lord and Lady.  I think its great 
that we all can have such different ideas from being presented with the 
same information.
Lord:	Herne
Lady:	Brigid, Lady of the Cauldron
Air:	Will
Earth:John
Fire:	Robin
Water:Marion
Miscellaneous questions:  Is anyone keeping track of all the books that 
people have mentioned here?  They all sound interesting, unfortunately 
for my wallet. :)  
 
There are two lists that are posted to the Usenet newsgroup 
rec.arts.books that people might find interesting.  They have a list of 
books on Robin Hood, and one of books about King Arthur.

Also, I remember hearing about a letterzine for RoS that deals with the 
show specifically.  Does anyone have a contact address for this zine?

Lastly, I'm starting a letterzine myself.  This one is going to be 
called What Can We Do?, and it's going to be about political, positive, 
practical, magical and fun things we can do to help make the world a 
better place.  What I'm hoping to get from people is everything from 
recycling tips, addresses for Greenpeace and Amnesty International, 
etc., to fun escapes from reality, such as SCA events, or good movies, 
or whatever.  There are things we can do to make the world a better 
place, and I'm tired of feeling only despair.  If interested, please 
send me a letter, or e-mail.

Goodness, I've rambled on long enough.  Lady Bless and Herne protect 
until next time.  Nothing's forgotten, nothing is ever forgotten.

Louise Bath
I must start by saying that if any comments in my last letter seemed 
anti-Celt, this was unintentional.  After all, I'm part Celt, & I'm 
lucky - considering my Gaelic leanings! - in that several people who've 
been particularly important & dear to me have been either Scottish or 
Irish.  As I've said to Hilda, there are times when you realize that 
the written word is often no substitute for the spoken; certain 
comments I made should've had a lot of smileys in them, rather than 
exclamation marks! :-)   But as I said at the time, no offence was 
intended, & I hope none was taken.

In May I spent a week in Brent Knoll in Somerset - & would advise 
anyone prepared to brave our Summer weather to head for the county.  
The countryside is fabulous (I'm biased!), with an atmosphere that's 
out of this world - especially in the Sedgemore area when the mists 
come rolling in over the Levels.  This land of legends has seen Celts, 
Danes, Saxons... & sometimes you feel that you've stepped straight into 
an old story-book.

A general question:  what do other Cousins feel is the truth concerning 
"Satanic Ritual Abuse?"

Anyway.  Many of the following comments refer back again to previous 
issues:  this is what re-reading them does to you... :-D 

Debbi H (6):  Apparently Herne was seen in Windsor Great Park as 
recently as the early 60s.  Legend has it that he appeared to some 
youths who blew on an old hunting horn that they'd found.

Ariel - re:  making political equations through RoS (4):  one non-
political one that always struck me was that the fear of leprosy in The 
Cross of St. Ciricus was like modern reactions to & ignorance about 
AIDS - or is that going too far?  (Hilda, you lost me with that one 
about being "slaves to the Welsh!")

5:  I agree with your comment to Kathy; yes, a discussion of the magic 
in RoS does move on to other things, & it's nice to break up the 
magical stuff with more general chat to give us pause for breath.

6:  Re:  Beverly Byrne's book A Matter of Time re:  the "Alexandrian 
Testament."  Could you tell me more, please?

7:  I like the idea of having a Norman "Marion" (Marianne?) - it would 
at least provoke some interesting responses from the outlaws!  It's 
also plausible - there are many examples of people from an "oppressing" 
group joining the ranks of the "oppressed" e.g. Robert of Huntingdon.  
:-) 

Chris H (9):  Re:  your objections to "Owen raping Marion" stories.  
True, fandom is supposed to be fun; but people should also be free to 
write about whatever inspires them, even if the results are disturbing.  
As you say, you don't have to read what doesn't appeal to you.  :-) 

Re:  your questions (12):  1) Personally I'd prefer Meg not to join 
John in the forest - it just wouldn't feel right to me.
2) I'd like to believe in reincarnation, but I wonder how many 
"memories" of past lives might simply be ancestral memories, tapping 
into the Akashic records, or a kind of "possession," as I think someone 
said several issues ago.  But assuming that there is an afterlife, 
reincarnation makes far more sense to me than any other theory.  I 
don't see why you can't have both ancestral memories & past life 
memories, though; I've not been regressed, but I've been to places that 
seem uncommonly familiar - I think I might've lived in 19th Century 
Yorkshire, in Ireland, & the Outer Hebrides.  But I also feel 
suffocated if I spray water on my face, & have a fear of being 
submerged in dark waters, & apparently I had a relative who died on the 
Titanic.  I don't know if the two things are connected, though!  Is it 
possible to have been one of your own ancestors?  Can you choose your 
next incarnation?  And, if time as we know it doesn't exist in the next 
dimension, is it possible - as a witch friend of mine believes - to be 
reborn not in the future, but in the past, according to the lessons one 
has to learn?  I rather like that last idea!

3) I believe in ghosts, but I've never seen one & I'm not sure what 
they are!  Some may be "tape-recordings," others might be sentient, 
others might be thought-projections of the living, & some might be 
entities that need the right "sensitive" to make them appear.
I was saddened by your info on Robert Addie; I'm sure I'm not alone in 
hoping that the tide will turn for him & that better times will soon be 
on their way.

Linda F (12):  It's all very well saying that history teaches us that 
if an oppressed group's being kicked around then they have to kick back 
or no one will ever respect them, but I'm not convinced that this is 
always the best way to react in any given "oppressive" circumstances, 
or that this theory is even true.  Surely in some ways it's not so much 
a question of "offending" people as alienating them?  A lot of people's 
reaction to "rabble-rousing" is negative because, quite frankly, having 
abuse chanted at you is not exactly guaranteed to make the majority of 
people wish to engage in either meaningful dialogue or further study of 
the issues to hand.  I must admit that my reaction to someone bellowing 
at me aggressively is not a positive one.  I'm sure that rabble-rousing 
has its place in raising awareness of issues, but the use of emotive 
language & sloganeering isn't necessarily the only way forward.  I can 
understand you wanting to kick back in print if you & your issues get 
"kicked around in print" - but how do you differentiate between being 
"kicked around" & someone merely begging to differ?

"Yng-land" as the origin of "England" sounds reasonably; I always felt 
that the "Angleland" transition was a bit forced!  :-) 

Julie Phipps (12):  Yes, you didÊtell me that Janet'd conned you into 
doing a Casualty story for Merry Men, but that's all you told me!  
Making Michael's character related to Rob Khalefa is very interesting - 
though I can imagine the two of them squabbling a lot, for some reason.

Raven (5):  why do you find making Loxley a sidhe offensive?

Re:  Gospel authorship:  Your comment that Mark was a friend of St. 
Paul's reminded me that there's a belief about the "naked young man in 
the garden" in Mark's gospel, which is that Jesus was initiating the 
young man (Mark himself) into a "mystery" religion when the soldiers 
arrived.  And if John is the earliest Gospel, that suggests interesting 
implications.

Christopher Robin (12):  I enjoy reading all the other elements that 
folk draw into discussions of RoS, but I agree that it's a shame to 
spend so much time in looking for what isn't there that what is there 
gets lost in the crush.

As for the historical Robin being gay/having had sexual contact with 
another man - well, you have a point.  If as an outlaw he'd spent his 
time living outside the "normal" social & moral boundaries, his 
thinking might therefore not be the same as that of someone who had - & 
it's possible that a homosexual relationship might not have been 
untenable to him.

Grace - re:  the book data-base:  Has that idea got any further?

Janet VanMeter - re:  the mummers' play in The Lord of the Trees (4):  
Isn't it possible though that mummers' plays were of meaning to the 
villagers, but that this particular one wasn't because it was needed as 
a diversion?  As an added bit of useless info, the Post Office once 
issued a Christmas stamp showing medieval mummers.

By the way, the English band XTC released an album called Mummer in 
1983.  The inner sleeve depicted Swindon's finest dressed in suits made 
from strips of paper, much like the costumes of the Marshfield Mummers.  
Their single Senses Working Overtime & their album English Settlement 
(its green & white cover depicts the Uffington White Horse) somehow sum 
up in music the magical spirit of old England & my own mystical 
feelings.  There were also "pagan" songs on their album Skylarking 
(Season Cycle & Sacrificial Bonfire, which aren't as blatant as they 
sound!).  Another one is Deliver Us From the Elements on Mummer which, 
for reasons I can't explain, conjures up vivid pictures of neolithic 
peoples; rituals; vast, empty Wiltshire land- & skyscapes & spiral 
dances amongst the avenues & circles of standing stones at Avebury.  
For me, XTC's post-English SettlementÊalbums (you can tell I'm a fan! 
:-D) have had an edge which I find as pagan as any number of songs about 
Green Men.  I doubt if Andy Partridge & Colin Moulding would agree with 
me on this, but I suspect that they'd find the idea of being labelled 
"pagan in spirit" quite fun.

Janet - re:  the Oak & Holly Kings (4):  Maybe they don't fight, but 
merely "hand the baton on" to each other?

Tara (6):  Which bits of the Arthurian stuff do you have problems with 
- & why?

12:  You're in the middle of a cornfield, eh?  So it's you we have to 
blame for the crop circles, then, not Doug & Dave or the Wessex 
Sceptics.  :-D 

Irena Armstrong:  Hello & welcome to Cousins!  Re:  Celtic music - what 
do you think of Runrig?  Have you (or anyone else, come to that!) ever 
encountered an Irish group called Lick the Tins?  They produced some 
singles & an excellent album called Blind Man On A Flying Horse, but 
no-one else seems to have heard of them.  :-( 

Stan Gurlewski:  Welcome to the Clan!  Though I suffer from SAD, I 
agree with you about your favourite weather.  I don't like the 
decreasing amount of sunlight, but the cold doesn't bother me; cold 
snowy days suit me, too - & windy days are incredibly full of energy.  
I love the Autumn & Winter months & find Spring a bit unsettling.  
Summer is okay, but while I enjoy the warmth & sunshine I loathe 
baking-hot days when the slightest effort makes the sweat pour & the 
brain go into reverse.

Linda Goodall:  Re:  Wuthering Heights & Jane Eyre as possible Mary 
Sues.  I agree, but I don't think that either Catherine or Jane is 
anything like as perfect as the blatant Mary Sues of modern times!  I 
think this illustrates the point that if the "MS" story stands in its 
own right/writes as a damn good yarn, the "MS" element recedes; it's 
only when the story is poor that it's impossible to ignore & make 
allowances for the MS character.  (What did you think of the recent 
Ralph Fiennes/ Juliet Binoche version of WH?)

If you can get a copy of Forbidden Forest 2, I seem to recall that it 
has an interesting Nasir story... :-) 

Re:  Brigantia - I echo your recommendation if this!  I found some of 
the material wonderfully eerie and evocative.  And from what I've read 
about Cartimandua, I'd love to see some fiction about her!  George 
Shipway's Imperial Governor has her as a central character, but I've 
not read it yet.  Funnily enough, I have Shipway's book The Wolf Time 
(!) from 1973:  the front cover illustration is that of a young knight 
who looks surprisingly like Robert Addie.

Re:  The Cranborne Chase:  I loved Burnett's version of Little John.  :-
D   Have you read The Priestess of Henge?  Another Robin very different 
to the ones we know is in Pamela Kaufman's The Shield of Three Lions.
Janet Reedman (7):  Re:  "casting" Firelord.  Give us some examples - I 
dare you!  :-D 

Re:  the pottiness of Margaret Murray, the Watkins' "Straight Track" 
theory, & Lethbridge's hill figures - tread carefully, dear!  :-)   You 
reminded me of the Glastonbury Zodiac, which gets dismissed for similar 
reasons as the Straight Track theory (i.e., the features making up the 
figures come from very different eras).  Perhaps you could argue that 
there was always power in the landscape & that over the centuries 
people have been "guided" to build the canals & other things that make 
up the figures/lines - & because our era is in need of proof of 
spiritual things, it's only now that we can really see & appreciate 
them.  But it's only a theory!  And what's wacky about Janet & Colin 
Bord, then, eh?  :-D 

Why do you think kids' books are frequently far more powerful than 
"adult" fantasy novels?  It's true, but I'm not sure why.  Perhaps the 
authors of children's books pull fewer punches & use the old 
tales/symbols/mythical ideas "undiluted" without pulling in explanatory 
bits/extraneous material.  It could also be that fantasy doesn't have 
quite the same "grounding," which is why it lacks this power.  Who 
knows?  :-) 

Ta for the info on the Avebury ox-cult.  The stone phalli reminded me 
of visiting Hadrian's Wall & discovering from the guide book that the 
Romans were very fond of carving phalli everywhere & wearing carved 
ones as charms because they were regarded as symbols of good luck.  Of 
course, other cultures have been equally fond of drawing the old willie 
- they certainly seemed to have a robust attitude towards genitalia & 
the amusement to be gained therefrom, although this may just be an 
idealization of our forebears!  But I can't help wondering how these 
"erotic" artworks compare with the graphic depictions of male & female 
genitalia that modern vandals enjoy scrawling on our local multi-storey 
car-parks so as to be "shocking."

I've read Sword at Sunset, but it was years ago - I must dig it out & 
re-read it.

Re:  The Proud Villeins:  So you thought it was Jason, too - it is like 
him, isn't it?  :-D 

Your description of your experiences when visiting stones describes 
their evocative nature perfectly.  I think this is the reason for one 
of my main complaints about (some) NATs - that they don't seem able to 
comprehend that "ordinary" people can pick up resonances at the stones 
just as well as they can.  We may not all get the same messages, but we 
get messages...

Re:  Arbor Low:  Pity about the cow-pat!  Do you think that the stones 
were ever upright, or might its "architect" have had a particular 
reason for wanting them laid out flat?

I'm sure that you also sympathised with Chris about Stonehenge - that 
you can't get as close as you can at Avebury, which makes for a 
frustrating visit.  I don't think anyone knows what to do about 
Stonehenge - least of all English Heritage boss Jocelyn Stevens, if 
recent comments of his are anything to go by.  Did you see One Foot in 
the Past the other week?  The "latest" plan to completely re-route the 
road past the stones is good news.  Not so good for the less athletic 
is that the new visitors' centre will be sited a mile or so from the 
stones so that anyone unable to walk very far won't get to see the 
stones at all, unless there's some provision made re:  wheel-
chairs/electric carts.  Stevens was interviewed & I was appalled at his 
condescending & patronizing attitude towards the disabled/elderly who 
he obviously thought would be quite happy to sit in the visitors' 
centre whilst their more able relatives went to see the stones; it 
didn't seem to have occurred to him that these "grannies" (his wording, 
if I remember rightly) might actually want to see the stones up close 
for themselves & not be content with mock-ups in a visitors' centre.  
When we went to Stonehenge in '84 the army were doing helicopter 
manoeuvres; I hope so, anyway - because one thing I remember is a lot 
of smoke/mist & some bright lights in the sky in that field with the 
barrows in it across the other side of the road.  But I doubt if it was 
anything mystical, although I don't remember hearing any helicopter 
noises...  I agree that the surrounding plains are as interesting as 
the monument.  I'm sure you're familiar with the terms "sacred/ritual 
landscapes" - the feeling that's evoked when travelling through this 
part of Wiltshire as a whole is very strong, isn't it?

"There's a truth beyond reality" - oh, absolutely!  It's like Plato's 
idea that the world as we know it is no more substantial than the 
shadows thrown on the wall of a cave by firelight; perhaps "reality" is 
the "fantasy," & "fantasy" is the true "reality."

Jacquie Groom:  Where didÊthe "RoS" episode Cromwell's Crusade come 
from?!

The idea of a German Morse (sorry, my machine doesn't do umlauts!) is 
fun - & fits in well with the quest for place-names with "legendary" 
connections, e.g. Robin Hood's Bay, etc!  :-D   I wonder if the motto of 
the Isle of Lewis is an aggrieved "Aww, Sir..."?  :-D   And one of the 
prominent points on Lewis (the island, as opposed to Kevin Whately) is 
The Butt of Lewis.  Are we back to buns again?

I know that with Julie & Hilda's additional comments we must be 
annoying the bejabbers out of anyone who either doesn't like/hasn't 
seen Casualty, but I still liked your suggestions for new Holby General 
porters!  :-)   We could also have Belleme, Lilith, & Jennet in the 
Pharmacy Dept.  :-D 

What was life on the Falklands like?  I've always thought that you must 
have a strong feeling of being on the edge of the world.  I was 
fascinated by your comments on my cultural piracy ramblings.  We're 
back to the question of why one can feel so at home/have a sense of 
"belonging" in places where - as you said of the Falklands - something 
just "clicks" & which has more to it than meeting relatives/being aware 
of a family link to a place.  Just what is it that can engender such a 
response?  The attitude of your tutor (apart from being bloody 
insensitive) when you were finding things difficult at the time of the 
Falklands War raises other questions.  Do you have to be born in a 
place before you're a "real" member of the community?  A lot of people 
might say "yes," but maybe there's as strong a case to be made for 
those who choose to be "adopted."  How long do you have to live 
somewhere before you really "belong?"  How many generations do your 
family have to live in a place before people stop referring to them as 
"newcomers?"  Does anyone actually have a right to judge someone else's 
"worthiness" to belong to a particular community?  Is it wrong to want 
to live in another country/community if the way of life & the land make 
you feel that you've finally "come home?"  It really does seem that 
there's a lot of truth in the old saying about home being where the 
heart is.

Re:  Arabic phrases in RoS:  The one that's always worried me is 
Sarak's aggressive snarl to Nasir which sounds horribly like "up yer 
back" - as though he's just seen a spider the size of the one in the 
Carling Black Label advert crawling up Nasir's obverse (?) side.

Siannan (12):  Re:  New Age Travellers.  I must admit that I don't know 
anything about their "influence" on Sedona - what happened, then?
I really have no wish to come over as some raving bigoted fascist on 
the subject of NATs, but everyone, I think, has a limit to what they 
can happily tolerate & I'm afraid this is one of mine.  I can 
understand why people become NATs, & I think that they should be 
allowed to live that way if they so choose; it's by no means an easy 
life, but there's something very appealing about the idea of simply 
taking to the road & moving from place to place.  Also, in an economic 
climate like Britain's' where a lot of people are jobless &/or homeless 
& see no hope for themselves in society then joining an alternative 
society where they don't feel so alienated makes perfect sense.  
Unfortunately, not all NATs are peaceful or seem content to "live & let 
live;" some seem to thrive on the confrontations that result from their 
mass trespass on farm-land & public open spaces - thereby preventing 
"normals" from enjoying these tracts of land.  A lot of the reports we 
get of their exploits over the summer are no doubt media hype & 
victimization, but I can understand why many people object to 
supporting NATs through taxation which goes to pay for their Income 
Support, etc.  After all, most NATs claim to be anarchists - & as 
someone commented recently, "True racists don't go limbo-dancing - & 
true anarchists don't sign on the dole."

How are things with the fundies these days?  I enjoyed your tale of 
your trip to the Scandinavian Faire!  I hate it when Fundies do that 
kind of thing across you - I always feel deeply conned.  :-) 

Laura Woodswalker Todd re:  "bogs, boggarts, etc." (12):  If that's 
mind-boggling, what worries me is in England "bog off" is an offensive 
expression closely akin to 2 more obscene ones (concerning sex + travel 
& urination + travel).  :-) 

I enjoyed your comments on ethnic piracy - certainly there's truth in 
every culture's myths.  I also can't help feeling that inevitably those 
cultures springing from a particular branch (e.g. Indo-European) will 
have a great deal more in common than the individual races concerned 
might realize.  Maybe this is the time to start looking at what unites, 
rather than divides.  You're right - the difference between our modern 
lives & those of our ancestors makes following old spirit paths with 
the same depth & degree of understanding of what they were on about 
nigh-on impossible.  By taking the aspects that have meaning for us, 
however, maybe we're helping the old traditions to evolve.  But as you 
say, we can't begin to comprehend (or at most we can get a vague 
understanding) of what life was like & how people felt 10,000 years 
ago.  And following only the path of one's particular ethnic group is 
fine if you feel happy doing so!

As for how many hundred years ago the Saxons conquered the Celts & 
isn't it time that was forgotten - erm - well you may be on tricky 
ground there, Laura!  :-)   But one can go too far; taking the Celt/Saxon 
thing to an extreme, one could argue that the "English" should all go 
back to Germany & Scandinavia & wherever the hell else they come from - 
but after 1500+ years it's simply unrealistic.  :-D   Mind you, I'm told 
there's a group called "The Northumbrian Nationalists" who want the 
English out of Northumbria - this is like wanting the Welsh out of 
Anglesey - since Northumbria is one of the earliest English kingdoms.  
And I still haven't discovered exactly what nationality the NN are!! :-) 
I'm not sure that I agree with you about the watering down/ 
assimilation of ethnic groups, although your example of Yugoslavia is 
as strong a vindication of your case as I can imagine.  Where I think 
that "strong ethnic identification" goes wrong is when it leads to "my 
ethnic group is better than your ethnic group."

You say that you're a Jew who's ashamed of what's happening in Israel; 
I can identify with that since I'm English & ashamed of what successive 
leaders of my country have done down the centuries to our Celtic 
neighbours.  But at the same time, rightly or wrongly, I'm not sure 
that this makes my race worse than any other.  In C12, Hilda, said:  
"I... think that the first step towards eliminating oppression is to 
acknowledge the gains already made & to live in the present, so as to 
avoid inaccurate accusations & despair."  But for the English, Celts & 
Gaels (or in fairness, some, at least), I think this is a difficult 
area.  There are still racist English idiots who view the Scots as 
tight-fisted, drunken boors; the Welsh as dim-witted rugby fans who 
sing hymns while molesting sheep; & the Irish as either thick, 
Guinness-sodden hicks or terrorists.  Thankfully, such remarks & 
attitudes are now considered unacceptable!  But English visitors to 
Celtic countries are often subjected to "racial" abuse; Welsh & 
Scottish nationalists favour using IRA-style tactics to "free" their 
nations; some Welsh nationalists are making threats of physical 
violence towards English "incomers" for "destroying their culture," & 
threatening to burn them out of their homes if they don't leave Wales.  
The English are expected to take all this as "just deserts," & if we 
don't like it, then tough - but the snag is that anyone assuming we'll 
meekly put up with this as a kind of masochistic score-settling is 
asking for trouble.  :-)   Yes, Goddess knows the English have merrily 
crapped on people in the past & it would be idiotic to deny it - but 
then so have a lot of other nations.  As the Sex Pistols said, No-one 
is Innocent.  There's nothing wrong with racial pride, & there's a lot 
in Celtic nationalism that I understand.  But I'm fed up of hearing 
"serves you right" from certain quarters, very un-pc of me to admit - 
but these attitudes don't get us any further forward, do they?  We 
really need to be building bridges & trying to settle our differences 
rather than continually raking up the past & the mistakes of successive 
English governments.

There's a new political group called "The Movement for Middle England" 
who want more power given to the English regions, devolved governments 
for Cornwall, Wales, & Scotland, & is generally in favour of small, 
autonomous nations with plenty of opportunity for government of local 
areas by people who actually live there.  One aim is to establish some 
kind of English national identity which is quite separate from what 
they call the Anglo-Norman "British" mentality which has been 
responsible for imperialism, etc.:  "It's not the blood of the Normans 
in our veins that we object to, it's the cultural damage that their 
arrogant ideas of controlling inferiors continue to do to English, 
Celtic, & other cultures."  MFME is aiming for better relations between 
the English & our Celtic neighbours, which is fine by me - it's no fun 
being disliked!  :-D   And blessed be if I've put any backs up with these 
comments - I'm sorry!  But not everything English British is 
oppressive/evil:  there's good & bad in all things.  :-) 

Anyway, I didn't mean to rant on quite so much about this, as I suspect 
I'm setting myself up for some replies equally as heated as the ones 
that you're dreading, Laura!  Talk about digging your own grave.  
Folks, please be gentle with us... :-D 

The Llewellyn New Times article sounded pretty cool!  Following a 
Celtic/Saxon path seems okay for me because they do have something to 
do with my ancestors - but your Generic Nature worship sounds (pardon 
the pun) far more earthy & in many ways more viable than a strictly 
cultural approach to religion because it sounds like the sort of thing 
our very earliest brothers & sisters would've done.  No magic words, no 
trappings, just heart-felt connections.

Re:  feeling uncomfortable with usurping the myths of a race that your 
own culture has oppressed.  Your example of the behaviour of Medieval 
Xns really made me stop & think because it was something that had never 
occurred to me before!  Back to your point:  agreed, tread with care.  
I think your idea of backing up the spirituality with some kind of 
compensatory acts is excellent - though I must admit that the nearest I 
get to that is supporting Celtic economies by buying loads of stuff & 
donating to local charities when I'm on holiday in Scotland/ Ireland.  
Hope that doesn't sound patronizing.  :-) 

Your description of your feelings when driving through central 
Pennsylvania was amazing, & extremely powerful.  I wish moreÊpeople 
could hear the stones, the mountains, & the trees speaking to them - 
but at the same time, I can't help thinking of Spike Milligan's parody 
of a Paint Your Wagon song:  "I talk to the trees - /That's why they 
put me away..."

Re:  Hilda's comment to Georgia about worshipping a guitar god by 
learning to play.  Okay, this is tortuous, but perhaps we can extend 
the idea - that by making use of any given talent/ learning some new 
skill is a way of worshipping whatever deity is "in charge" of that 
particular skill.

Georgia (8):  Yes, but would a Norman "Marion" be unable to speak 
English?  I get very confused about who spoke what in the 13th C.
You don't have a spare photocopy of How Mary Magdalene Became a Whore, 
do you?  Grovel grovel... [Make that two spare copies and four 
grovels... -H]

I wish St. Hilda hadn't caved in to the Romanists - the Celtic Church 
had so much wisdom to offer that it's a pity we lost it.

12:  I've just been skimming through my copy of Gundarsson's Teutonic 
Magic - someone's probably already mentioned this, but do you think we 
could equate Nasir with Odin & Grid's son Vidarr?  After all, not only 
is he credited with ripping open the jaws of the Fenris-Wolf, but he's 
also "the silent god" who is associated with the depths of the forest.  
:-) 

Your letter made enlightening reading - Georgia, you could never be 
boring.  I was fascinated by your comments on pagan views of 
homosexuality.  When you say that this is the only period in history in 
which organizations are being set up specifically targeting gays, 
lesbians, & bi's - by that did you mean anti or support groups?  I know 
it's naive, but I can't help feeling that the old adage of "It doesn't 
matter who you love, as long as you give love to somebody" should be 
taken up more strongly.

Re:  a black Jesus - this isn't strictly in the spirit of the point you 
were making to Kip, but I was reminded that a few years back a group of 
Odinists complained vociferously when a black actor was cast as Woden 
in a production of the Ring Cycle because they felt that a black Woden 
was inappropriate.  (And "one man's Mede is another man's Persian" 
indeed!  :-O)

Thanks for your comments on Nick Higham's theory!  I still haven't got 
round to contacting Mike Howard re:  the original article, but I will, 
I promise.  Maybe Arthur's the man associated with Britain because 
whilst Alfred & Edmund were good kings & achieved a great deal, perhaps 
at heart everyone (Saxon, Celt, Dane, Martian) loves colourful tales of 
derring-do.  [And what does "derring-do" mean?!  :-)  ]

I find the idea of E.T. intervention in human history & advancement 
interesting, & I wouldn't be surprised if extraterrestrials had visited 
us in the past.  But like you I can't accept that our earlier brothers 
& sisters were much less intelligent than weÊare today.  I think this 
is why I have such a problem with Erich von Daniken, in that his books 
depict early peoples as having the intellectual & imaginative 
capabilities of a boiled carrot.

Hilda (4):  I never saw Loxley as a Celt because for me there never 
seemed to be anything in the series to suggest it - & would a Celt 
speak out so strongly against the sufferings of the English?  Though I 
can accept the idea of "blood will out" - the Welsh side of my family 
are at least 4th generation "English" but are still "dark Celts."  :-D 
5:  Abbot Martin deserved more episodes!  Martin & Herne - what a 
combination...

Re:  Loxley's death & druids using bows & arrows to kill sacrificial 
victims (6):  With such things in mind, should we view the martyrdom of 
St. Sebastian in a new light?

I was miaowing up the wrong tree about black cats!  They areÊlucky.  If 
one runs across your path it's considered very fortunate - unless, of 
course, you trip over the bloody thing.

Re:  your comment "Xianity as currently practiced is a religion aimed 
at emotional toddlers" (7):  I think that's a bit cruel, but it's 
probably true of at least some churches.  But isn't it a dreadful 
indictment of the attitudes of a number of Xns?  Unless you're into 
spiritual & emotional masochism & prefer to ignore the loving, 
forgiving God in favour of the blood & thunder one, I don't understand 
the appeal of this.  Anda, how prevalent is this attitude amongst Xns?  
Do you know?  Are we getting this out of proportion?

By the way, there was an interesting point raised in a pagan magazine 
some time ago about evangelical churches - that with all their 
concentration on cataloguing the strength, power, cunning, & 
intelligence of Satan during meetings (this, I assume, was a 
generalization), it might lead one to wonder just who it was they were 
worshipping.

Re:  Lilith the Child-Strangler who destroyed imperfect children (7).  
If you assumed that the nomenclature was a bit of a patriarchal name-
calling, maybe she merely destroyed the imperfections and not the 
child; you see, I have this image of her taking a child to one side 
(into another dimension?) & then teaching him/her how to relate more 
effectively to others.  This shows how little I know of this aspect of 
Lilith (i.e. nowt), but I can see this strong woman leading the errant 
child through ever-more challenging confrontations until he reaches 
"enlightenment" - it could ultimately be quite an exhilarating learning 
experience (imagine it filmed by Spielberg!  :-D ).  I'm sure there are 
some old tales along these lines, but can think of none off-hand.  I 
find it a stimulating idea (I'd love to see it as a book), but I'm 
aware that I know nothing about this tradition, so please understand 
that if this idea gives great offence, it wasn't meant to.  (Black 
Peter could do similar things, of course!)  And thanks for telling me 
about The Book of Lilith, which sounds really inspiring; hopefully I 
can get it through the library or a local bookshop.  Failing that, 
could I borrow it, please?  [Any time!  -H]

9:  Just who is Mercedes Lackey?  [Queen's Own folks - how to answer 
this one succinctly?  -H]

Re:  "welk" = "twist"/"bend."  Doesn't "welkin" mean "sky?"  If so, 
does this help or not?  Not, probably.  But if it does, I mean - what 
does it mean?  (Fnar fnar  :-D )

12:  I liked your comments to Laura on cultural identity etc. - 
particularly the idea of a warrior of modern times finding new battles 
in the war on crime, pollution, etc.

Re:  Waco - the scenes of the blazing compound really scared me, too.  
What we Brits couldn't make out is exactly who the Branch Davidians 
were & what their beliefs were.

I like the idea of constructing a "writers' group" specially for fan 
writers!  Another piece of ammunition in the "originality" debate might 
be that borrowing other people's ideas is fine so long as you do 
something interesting with them.

Re:  the polarized relationship between the descendants of oppressors & 
the spirituality of their forebears' victims - no, neither approach 
does the original culture justice.  But perhaps by taking on that 
spirituality & travelling the "middle" path is a kind of acknowledgment 
of the validity of that culture's beliefs which your ancestors ignored 
& somehow trying to heal the wounds.  I know that sounds incredibly 
nauseating, but that's the best way I could find to explain what I 
meant.  :-) 

Re:  the preponderance of Celtic magic in RoS.  It doesn't bother me 
that much.  And each to their own - it's been said many times that this 
universe is one in which we're all free (up to a point! :-D) to indulge 
particular fantasies & explore particular theories, ideas, & pet 
obsessions.  And long may it be so!  It's just that occasionally I feel 
that by having too many Celtic elements in RoS fanfic the fiction 
starts to take on shades of an alternative universe.  This is just a 
pet peeve, because while I love all that glorious stuff, for me the 
Celtic threads don't always sit too well with the RoS universe.  Most 
of the material in this vein is excellent; but occasionally there's 
some over-egging of the pudding which just feels all wrong to me - 
especially if the author is heavy-handed.  :-) But ultimately people will 
- & should - write what they enjoy & explore the avenues that interest 
them; after all, that's what makes fanfic fun.

I find it hard to believe that the Saxons did concentrate on military 
matters to the exclusion of all else - as you say, this is probably a 
complaint that must be laid at the feet of those who wrote the first 
books on the matter.  :-D I mean, just to lay myself open to further 
castigation here, were there really so many differences between the 
Celts & Saxons (or any other groups from the same basic "branch?")  
They may not have agreed on the finer details, bt on the broader 
scale...?  I think Frank Delaney's' said something along these lines, 
but I'm blowed if I can find the reference! :-) 

I like the sound of Artos - do you have any further info?  [Kip?  Any 
news?  -H]

I should've put in more :-Ds & :-)s when I was having my "lack of Saxon 
input" whinge.  It was meant to be good-humoured, not a vicious rant. :-)  
As I've said to you before, this is where the spoken word scores over 
the written; exclamation marks can signal "I am very angry about this!" 
& not just "I want to have a moan about this, but it's not meant 
unkindly" - which is something that only occurred to me when it was far 
too late.  :-) 

I agree with your comments on those who pit nature against jobs in the 
public mind.  In addition, with the current recession, many unemployed 
people are themselves willing to sacrifice the future for the sake of 
earning a living & supporting their families - which I can understand, 
but which also seems to indicate a kind of spiritual poverty in modern 
times.

Lord knows what'll happen as a result of Kevin Carlyon's actions!  But 
I suppose this also begs the question of whether or not the pre-
existent energies at these sites are sentient & are thinking "Hang on a 
minute - who is this Kevin Carlyon anyway?" :-) 

Hereward the Wake led the Fenland (i.e. Eastern counties of England) 
revolt against William the Conqueror.

A final bit of useless info:  don't stay in cliff-top hotels in 
Scarborough with the man of your dreams or else you'll find that the 
earth really does move for you...

Siannan
Greetings Cousins!  I hope the Lady is blessing your summer!  I know I 
am having fun!  Did everyone have a good time at Weekend In Sherwood?  
I want to hear all about it!

I appreciate several of you naming good Celtic music to buy.  Please 
continue the recommendations!  Ceoltoiri is another excellent Celtic 
group.  I recommend their tapes, Silver Apples Of The Moon and Celtic 
Lace.  For those of you interested in rock music related to the Native 
American path try Songs From The Lost World by Requiem For The 
Americas.  This tape includes music by Yes, Toni Childs, John Waite, 
Duran Duran, Grace Jones, poetry readings by Jim Morrison and much 
more.  It is superb!

Christine Haire.  There is a rope barrier around Stonehenge?  That's 
too bad.  Aren't there certain times when people are allowed to walk 
among the monoliths?  As for jumping the barrier - go for it!  I am one 
of those rebellious types who tends to disobey those kinds of rules!  
This is getting off the topic a bit, but don't you think rope barriers, 
and signs that say "Do not touch" or "Keep off the grass" defeat their 
purpose?  They often call someone's attention to an object or behavior 
they otherwise would not have thought of.  I remember going to a 
theatre several years ago and seeing a Do not touch" sign of something 
(I can't remember what it was now - that's how insignificant the object 
was).  The sign drew everyone's attention to this object that they 
would never have noticed!  Of course I ran right over and touched it - 
nothing happened.  Hmmmm...  sounds like a good research idea for a 
psychology class!  :-) 

On to your questions.  The fact that Meg did not join the band in the 
forest is a loose end.  Perhaps she did not wish to.  After all she did 
want John to leave the forest with her.

I strongly believe in reincarnation.  My mom teaches classes on the 
topic and does do past life therapy (regressions).  I have been 
regressed twice in private sessions and several times in a group.  
Every time was an enlightening experience.  It helps to go into the 
session with certain questions about people you know in this life or 
experiences you have had.  The therapist will have you focus on these 
questions so that you will be likely to recall a past life that can 
explain your present relationships or events.  Past life therapy can be 
very helpful.  Just make sure you go to a hypnotherapist experienced in 
doing past life regressions.

I have experienced deja vu when looking a pictures of the Cotswolds in 
England.   But the strongest incidence of deja vu I have seen happened 
was to my mom. While we were visiting the Rosicrucian Egyptian museum, 
she walked up to a replica of the breast plate on the Sphinx and this 
intense feeling of homesickness gripped her.  She started crying 
uncontrollably.  She could not take her eyes off the breast plate.  She 
had never felt like that before nor has since.

Question for all Cousins.  Do you feel that a belief in reincarnation 
affects how intensely an individual lives her/his life?  For example, 
do people who believe this lifetime is the only one live their lives 
more fully than those of us who know we will be coming back again to 
live other lives?  Hmm...  that's another good research idea!
I do believe in ghosts, but I used to think all ghost stories were 
bullshit until I had a real one of my own.  Several years ago we had a 
"visitor" and very odd things went on that were completely 
unexplainable.  But the climax for me was the night I was up late and 
heard someone trying to break in the house (the dog was barking too) 
and then heard someone walking through the dining room.  I ran in 
there, but no one was there and no one had been trying to get in the 
house.  To have such obviously real sounds with nothing tangible making 
them was all the proof I needed that ghosts do exist!  We have not had 
any spooks visit us like that since and I am glad!

have also had experiences with what my mom and I call '"borrowers" (I'm 
not sure if they are fairies or playful spirits) - when I cannot find 
something I know I put in a certain spot and I look there several 
times, not finding it.  Then, later, it is there or in a completely odd 
place I know I never would have put it!  Grrr...  something must be 
getting a good laugh over that!

The origin of the gypsies is India.  They are a migratory people who 
have intermarried with European cultures thus eventually getting 
lighter skin color.  Some gypsies believe they are descendants of the 
Line of Cain who were exiled and cursed to wander the lands without a 
home.

Linda Frankel.  The story of Robert leaving the comforts of nobility to 
join the band in the forest is a classic archetypal theme (choice):  
comfortable ignorance or spiritual awakening.  The spiritual path is 
not always easy for it demands that we grow.  Often along the wag we 
can be seduced by the comforts of our old ways much like Robert had a 
time of questioning whether he wanted to choose the adventurous 
(spiritual) path or the comforts of the castle.  Each of us come to a 
point(s) in our lives when we must face that choice.

The magical/pagan aspect of RoS is what initially drew me to the 
series.  I was impressed that Robin was portrayed as a Pagan rather 
than a Christian which just seems more realistic of the times.  I do 
agree with your attraction to shows that center on chosen families.  
Often in real life people are stuck with biological families in which 
they do not really fit so they like to seek out surrogate families.  
That is why shows which have that chosen family atmosphere appeal to 
us.  It is that desire to find a place where we belong, to find our 
"people."  Doctor Who has often had that vibe with the right 
combination of companions, especially in the early years of the series.
Having sex with individuals other than Marion would have been out of 
character for Robin as Richard Carpenter created him.  By the way, I 
was not cheapening the Great Rite with crass judgments.  Please do not 
read more into what I am saying than I am!  It is also possible that 
Robin and Marion would act as Goddess and God in all the rites.  The 
magic from their Divine union would affect other's consummating their 
love on that night.

I agree with your sentiments about oppressed groups needing to fight 
back.  No one should have to take a kicking.  You have a right to your 
anger.  What I am saying is that there is a point where it can be taken 
too far and it defeats its purpose causing the opposite reaction than 
what it was intended to produce.  Beating someone over the head with an 
issue does not make them support you.  It just makes them angry toward 
you.  I took an intercultural communications class one semester in 
order to learn about other cultures and increase my empathy toward 
them.  I had an East Indian teacher who spent all the class time 
complaining about white people and rarely talking about anything else.  
I left that class feeling angry and less tolerant of other cultures.  
That man had an opportunity to bring cultures closer together in 
understanding.  Instead he took things too far and cause nothing but 
resentment and more hostility among the various cultures in his 
classes.

Ruth Dempsey.  You brought up a very important point regarding Bible 
interpretation.  It baffles me why so many people take the Bible so 
literally, especially since it was written centuries ago by people who 
were very different than we are today and could not fathom what society 
would be like a couple thousand years later.  Not only were the stories 
in the Bible recorded long after the fact, they were written in bardic 
form which involves exaggeration.

On top of that, the religious leaders of the Middle Ages did their own 
meddling with the Bible passages, cutting out and pasting in what 
suited them.  As you said; everyone truth is their own and we must, as 
individuals, seek our own meanings from religious texts.

Laura Woodswalker Todd.  re.  animals we represent.  I have always 
idolized tigers.  They are graceful animals whose appearance is 
impressive.  They are fierce when they need to be and independent - 
they do not run in packs and are able to stand on their own.
Are we merely children of the Earth?!  Don't be surprised if we have 
other world blood in us as well.  No I won't get started on the ancient 
astronaut theory...  not yet, those comments are saved for Georgia.
You are correct, figures from the media do become archetypal 
representations for our inner selves.  I do, however, cringe at the 
idea of John F. Kennedy as a Divine King or Sacrificed God.  I am not a 
Kennedy clan fan so admit by bias forthright.  He had a lot of charisma 
but when we get down to analyzing his capabilities in office, they are 
sadly lacking.  Because he died in office, he is seen as a martyr, but 
had he lived, many scholars believe he would have been considered one 
of our worst presidents.

Jim Morrison was a genius and an enlightened individual who got caught 
on the path of self-destruction.  That is not a Sacred King myth, but a 
sad waste of potential.

Kris:  on feeling left out:  All fans are important and should be made 
to feel that way whether they are from Japan or Kalamazoo!  That is why 
I love what Hilda is doing with Cousins.  She includes our letters and 
makes everyone feel like they matter! :-) 

So - I am not the only one eagerly and impatiently checking the mailbox 
every day!  Hey, if the zines and merchandise weren't any good, we 
would not care when they came, right?  The clubs should take our 
impatience as compliments and not just gripes. :-P 

Christopher Robin:  I have read numerous books on the Celts and have 
never read about same-sex love among their warriors.  The only place I 
have read about shield-mates is in fantasy novels.  I do not dispute 
your claims, but I would like to know your source for this information.

Amber Foxfire.  I always felt that the "will they or won't they" aspect 
to Robert and Marion's relationship was used to titillate the viewers.  
This technique is used frequently in TV series to create sexual tension 
and keep the viewers interested - i.e.  Maggie and Joel in Northern 
Exposure, Dr. Quinn and Sully on Dr. Quinn Medicine Woman, Sam and 
Diane on Cheers.

Louise Bath.  I also have a difficult time understanding how people can 
destroy beautiful places and not feel something!  At one corner of our 
ranch along a dirt canal we used to have three beautiful weeping 
willows.  Amongst them were large areas of tules.  I used to walk down 
to that spot every evening, sit on the pipe that went across the canal 
and watch the sunset.  The magic in that place was incredible!  One day 
the irrigation district decided to clean out this particular canal.  
The man operating the backhoe dumped mud on top of the two small 
willows, set fire to the larger one and basically uprooted everything 
else.  I was shocked that anyone would wreak that kind of mindless 
destruction on such an obviously beautiful spot.  We complained about 
this, but to no avail.  However - karma works!  The irrigation district 
is now being sued by a lot of their former employees.  This is going to 
cost them big money!  That magical spot won't be replaced by this, but 
it is wonderful to see karmic justice at work!

The sign of the moon with the waxing and waning crescents on either 
side is also a horned symbol of the Goddess.

Interesting musing on Satan.  Hilda has written a great article 
entitled "Evil Among Us" which clearly pinpoints the metaphysical 
notion of Satan, negative thinking like "I can't."  Satan is basically 
that part of our egos which keeps us from believing our true identities 
- that we are Divine Beings capable of magnificent feats!  I promised I 
would not mention this yet, but I cannot resist.  According to Zecharia 
Sitchen, the Sumerian god, Enki (Ea) whose symbol was the serpent, was 
the Biblical Satan.  He was actually an ally to humans and wanted to 
bring them out of ignorance and give them the knowledge of the 
celestial gods.  His brother, Enlil, who desired to keep humankind 
slaves tilling the fields of the gods (called the Eden), was angered by 
this and set out to twist the reputation of Enki and his family into an 
evil or dark force.  Quite far out... but certainly an interesting 
notion, don't you think?

"Nothing is good or evil only the thinking that makes it so!"

Janet Reedman.  re:  war goddesses.  Interestingly, many of the love 
goddesses of the old pantheons were also known as war goddesses like 
Maeve, Inanna, Ishtar, and Freya.  Were they love goddesses in time of 
peace and war goddesses in time of battle?  Or were there deeper 
reasons for this duality?  like the balance these goddesses represent, 
the power of the feminine as the lover and life giver as well as the 
warrior and slayer.  This duality exists in all women only the warrior 
half has been repressed.  Or, perhaps the message is that there really 
is a thin line between love and hate.  Hmm...

Stan Gurlewski.  It's not only OK to question one's faith, but 
necessary.  Doing so is a sign you are growing spiritually, thinking 
for yourself, and finding your Truth that will set you free.  Following 
the crowd gets you no further than the crowd.  By thinking for yourself 
you will pioneer new ground.

My first ritual experience also convinced me there is a lot more going 
on than we fully comprehend.  When I was in high school this girl named 
Joanne (name has not been changed to protect privacy!), who was 
supposed to be my friend, stayed at my house one weekend.  I taught her 
how to meditate since it was something she had not been exposed to and 
wanted to learn.  On Monday she came to school and told all the girls 
in our PE class that I was praying to the devil.  At first I could not 
figure out why everyone was treating me so oddly.  With the help of 
another friend (a true one!) I discovered what Joanne had said and my 
friend and I confronted her.  She denied everything.

Later that evening I went to a meeting of teenagers into New Age 
religions and we did a burning ritual.  We wrote something on a paper 
we wanted removed or corrected in our lives (for everyone's highest 
good, of course) and burned them, saying a blessing as we did.  I wrote 
"The lies Joanne told about me."  Within a half an hour of arriving 
home I received a telephone call from Joanne.  She cried and apologized 
for what she had done.  The next day she went to school and told 
everyone she had lied about me.  Ritual definitely works!!

Even though I have been a professional student I have not taken classes 
on the cultures of my interest.  Celts, Gypsies, Ancient Egypt.  There 
have never been classes offered on them at the colleges I have 
attended.  I would love to take a course on the history of Britain or 
Gypsiology, but because that is not possible here 1 have studied and 
read numerous books on my own.  I also discovered something else, 
studying is so much more enjoyable when we do not have to worry about 
writing reports or being exammed.  We study for the pleasure of 
learning and not to earn a grade.  I actually believe we learn more 
when we study for pleasure than being coerced by grades!  :-) 

As for other zines, I get MPNN, On Target, The Quickening, and 
Milennial Star (a UFOlogy zine).  I am also editor of Faces Of The 
Goddess.  I got involved in the RoS community by writing Starlog and 
asking for the names of RoS clubs and zines.  They gave me Janet 
Reedman's address and she gave me the rest of my connections.  Thanks 
Janet!!

I guess I am in the minority along with you!  I prefer Autumn and 
Winter with their cold, brisk air and stormy days.  There is a lot of 
magic available in storms.  I always have lots of energy in Autumn, but 
Spring makes me lethargic so I do not get much done.  I also prefer 
vacations in cool climates.  Tropical locales excite me none at all!
Georgia Fleming.  Becoming as gods is the realization that we already 
are gods.  I believe we just forgot somewhere along the way and we are 
here to remember.  God/dess is the Divine Force that is ALL.  The terms 
"god" or "goddess" also stand for archetypes in the psyche.  I rarely 
use the term "demigods" because it implies that there are beings who 
are not fully Divine.  The God/dess is ALL.

The ancients' knowledge of the outer planets of our solar system went 
far beyond the gravitational activities of the heavenly bodies.  There 
are ancient Sumerian descriptions of the features and colors of the 
outer planets of our solar system - information just recently retrieved 
by Voyager 2!  No - the ancients' knowledge was not the result of a 
Eureka experience.  Either they had the technology to see these planets 
or "someone else" who had seen them imparted that information to the 
Sumerians.  If you prefer not to consider "cosmic instructors," that's 
cool, but, for me, the evidence is just too great to dismiss the 
probability that ancient cultures had contact with extraterrestrials.
I believe the Second Coming of Christ (Divine Self) will be when we 
come into full realization of our godhood.  It will happen to different 
people at different times.

Hilda.  I absolutely agree with you on not talking about spells.  It is 
tempting to tell someone, but that is a mistake.  I have found my 
personal magic to work best when no one else knows.  If we tell people 
about our spells, they only doubt the power and that negative thinking 
can dissipate the energy.  I do not even tell others when I have job 
interviews or exams.  I don't want any doubt energy focused my way.
I am also with you on dancing as prayer.  I find it difficult to sit 
still for very long and meditate so I changed my prayer/ meditation to 
a form more suited to my personality.  I spend at least a half an hour 
a day just dancing to my favorite Celtic music and connecting with the 
Goddess.  Walking in nature is also an excellent form of prayer!  By 
the way, did you see the PBS series on dancing?

I have studied transcendent philosophy and it is only the extremists 
who deny this world completely as an illusion.  Most on the 
transcendent path work at altering their perceptions of the world 
around them so that they come to see it as Divine, regarding any other 
perceptions (that anything is not of God/dess) as illusory.  We must 
work at seeing beyond the illusion of separateness from God/dess and 
each other and recognize the Oneness of All Life.

I do believe our past lives define who we are now and the experiences 
we have in this life time.  Preferences, desires, vows, bonds of love, 
and ties of hate can be carried across lifetimes.  I also believe we 
come into each life in order to untie what my mom refers to as a 
''karmic knot" that we tied ourselves to in other lives.  For example, 
if a soul in one life is a person who beats his wife - that is creating 
a karmic knot - and in the next life that soul many have the chance to 
be a beaten wife.  Or, a soul who was a person who killed people in one 
life may have a chance to untie the karma by being a doctor or other 
type of healer in the next life.

Finally...  I love your idea for duck magic!  You have such cool ideas!  
Thanks for sharing them!  :-) [Than ks for appreciating them!  By all 
means, send your own special rituals our way!  -H]
Blessed Be Cousins!

Linda Goodall
Greetings, sweet cousins.  I've just finished reading #12, and as 
always am amazed at the extent of everyone's knowledge; it's really 
thought provoking stuff.
Christine:  I too have wondered why Meg couldn't live in the forest 
with John.  I suppose from the show's point of view it might have been 
considered too domestic and cosy.  But from various accounts that I 
have read with regard to Robin Hood, the families of the outlaws also 
had to hide out in Sherwood.  The very fact that Meg had a connection 
with the Merries must have placed her in danger of being taken to use 
as a hostage, so I think that it would have been safer for her to live 
with John, than stay in her village.

Reincarnation is a fascinating idea and I don't know what to believe.  
For myself, I have no 'other life' memories; but that doesn't mean to 
say that I haven't lived before.  While on this subject, have you read 
Lady of Hay by Barbara Erskine (ISBN 0-7221-3359-6)? It was so good I 
just couldn't put it down!

I would like to believe in ghosts as my mother promised that she would 
make contact with me after her death.  In the twenty years since then, 
I have only had one possibly supernatural experience, which left me 
with a feeling of contentment and a sense of well-being.  A few months 
after my mother's death I was in my father's bedroom, in a house in 
which my mother had never lived.  Suddenly I smelt her perfume, it was 
as if she had just walked past me.  She always wore Chanel no. 5 and 
the scent was immediately recognisable as that.  I tried to discover 
what could have been the cause of the smell, yet found nothing.  The 
house I live in now is supposed to be haunted by a lady dressed in 
white who appears on the stairs.  I haven't seen her and I haven't 
heard anything strange, although my youngest son claims to have heard 
tapping sounds, light bulbs have exploded in his presence, and the TV 
changed channels all by itself.  However all that happened when we 
first moved in here, over a year ago and it's been quiet ever since, 
thank goodness!  I spend a lot of time on my own as my husband works in 
Belgium, and on nights when my son sleeps over at a friend's house, 
devoid of human company, I face the terrors of the night alone!  
Fortunately I never feel afraid, even when it's wild and windy, for the 
house has a very restful ambience which makes me feel safe and 
protected.  Perhaps the spirit of the 'white lady' is watching over me.
Woodswalker:  I heartily agree with your comments on the dangers of 
adhering too strongly to one's ethnic origins.  'Ethnic cleansing' is a 
horror which, in these supposedly enlightened times, should not exist; 
but alas, our barbaric tendencies are only hidden beneath a thin veneer 
of civilisation.

Amber Foxfire:  Re:  Loxley or Huntingdon.  Have you ever wondered how 
the show would have progressed if Michael had not left it.  Obviously 
the character of Robert of Huntingdon would never have been created  - 
sorry, Jason fans.  I presume that the episodes featuring Jason would 
have been written for Michael, and The Greatest Enemy would have been 
shown as the very last episode.  OK, I know, this is really a question 
for Kip.

Kip:  Are you out there?

Paula Sanders:  Could be that your sister's theory re:  what took place 
between Owen and Marion is correct.  Although I tend to think that, as 
his Champion (Nasir) was about to fight and Owen had money on the 
outcome, he would probably have kept Marion until later.  My only 
surprise is that he didn't have his wicked way with her as soon as he 
got her back to his castle.  I wouldn't have thought that he would mind 
if she was willing or not; to a miscreant like him, Marion's fear and 
revulsion would have only added to his enjoyment.

Louise Bath:  Re:  concentration on the Celts.  I've also wondered why 
the Merries were assumed to be Celts.  I always thought of them as 
Saxon freedom fighters, struggling against Norman oppression.  In Kip's 
novel Robin of Sherwood, he describes Robin's father, Ailric, as Thane 
of Loxley.  A Thane was an Anglo-Saxon term for one who held land of 
the king and was a freeman, in other words he was of Saxon heredity.  
The fact that Kip used Herne in his stories rather than a Saxon deity 
doesn't automatically make his followers Celts.  As has already been 
mentioned, Herne the Hunter was not associated with Sherwood, so I 
presume that Kip was using poetic licence and simply chose Herne 
because he appealed to him.  In the case of Herne's appearance in RoS, 
one could imagine that perhaps he went with the territory and the local 
people just adopted him.  But on the whole, I agree with Hilda's 
remarks on this subject; the Celtic history and legends do seem more 
romantic than those of the warlike Saxons.  One of my favourite stories 
is about the sad fate of Lir's four children.  The following is the 
last part of a poem recounting their tragic tale:
	Silent, O Moyle, be the roar of thy water:
	Break not, ye breezes, your chain of repose,
	While, murmuring mournfully, Lir's only daughter
	Tells to the night-star her tale of woes.
	When shall the swan, her death-note singing,
	Sleep, with wings in darkness furl'd?
	When will my heaven, its sweet bells ringing,
	Call my spirit from this stormy world?
Hilda:  Going back to the question of Herne's appearance in Sherwood, 
in the course of my browsings I have read that the various cults were 
comparatively localised and it was rare to find deities worshipped over 
wide areas.  The cult of Lug appears to be the exception, and the 
mother-goddesses enjoyed a wider distribution than male deities.  It 
seems that the mythology itself can't be taken as evidence that there 
was normally a widespread belief in specific gods.  This is not to say 
that similar gods weren't worshipped under different names among 
different tribal groups, as with Herne/Cernunnos.  It's interesting to 
note that there is much evidence in Northern Britain of dedications to 
Celtic gods by Roman soldiers.  Several deities, Cernunnos amongst 
them, were linked with Roman gods such as Mercury and Mars.

Re:  Religious music.  I particularly like Plainsong, because I love 
the simple purity of unaccompanied voices.  I can recommend:  Allegri's 
most wonderful Miserere on an album entitled Allegri Miserere 
performed, along with other pieces, by Kings College Choir, Cambridge.  
Anything by Thomas Tallis (1505-1585), William Byrd (1543-1623) and 
Robert Carver (1484-1568).  I also find Gregorian Chant extremely 
soothing and there's lots of this available; but I prefer it sung by 
male voices.  I don't consider myself to be religious and I don't 
attend any formal gathering.  My mother used to say that we were as 
near to Heaven whilst out walking on the moors as we were in a church, 
and we didn't need pomp and circumstance to gain God's attention.  But 
I never fail to be moved when I listen to the beautiful music that I 
have mentioned, and at such times can truly believe in a sublime and 
glorious after-life.

Re:  Hereward the Wake.  He was a famous Fenland hero and outlaw who, 
in 1067, rallied the English resistance against William the Conqueror.  
Hereward converted Ely Abbey into a fortress and held it against the 
Norman invaders until 1071.  When the Abbey fell, he is reputed to have 
escaped and fled to Winchester where he swore allegiance to William and 
gained the king's favour.  What eventually became of Hereward is 
uncertain.  It is said that he came to a sticky end, when a band of 
envious Normans set upon him and stabbed him in the back; but not 
before he had managed to kill 15 of them with his famous sword 
Brainbiter.

Well, I think I've taken up more than enough space!  I hope I shall 
meet many of you at Greenwood IV.  Until next time, Herne's blessings 
be with you and yours.

Linda Frankel
I just wrote an article brought about by some exciting research that is 
currently being done by gay scholars in the area of Norse and English 
folklore that asks the provocative question "Was Robin Hood Gay?" It 
will appear in the Lavender Pagan Network Newsletter.  it is a response 
to an earlier article in that publication which deals in greater detail 
with the research regarding homosexuality in the Norse tradition that 
Georgia was discussing in issue 12.  If any Cousins are interested, 
they should write to me and I'll gladly fill you in.

I found something in The Myth of the Goddess by Anne Baring and Jules 
Cashford (Viking/Arkana, London, 1991 ISBN 0-670-835641) which might be 
of interest to Nasir fans.  There was apparently an Islamic concept of 
the Green Man.  He is called Khadir, which means "the Verdant One" and 
is also known as "the Hidden Imam."  He appeared to Ibn Arabi and 
represents the power of nature.  Could Nasir be identifying Herne with 
Khadir?

COMMENTS ON MAILING #11

To Richard Carpenter re:  gay villains - Unfortunately, there is a 
widespread belief in the general population that gay men are evil 
people who are likely to be psychopathic murderers, child molesters or 
transvestite bank robbers.  This is consistent with the idea that 
someone who would break the taboo against homosexuality would have no 
moral code.  When you or any other writer portrays homosexuals who are 
violent and cruel, you are reaffirming this stereotype and 
strengthening that negative concept of homosexuals in the public mind.  
You have a right to do this, but is it a socially responsible thing to 
do in view of all the discrimination that homosexuals have had to face?  
RoS is fiction, but it's important to remember that fiction has power 
to affect the way people think.  This power should never be 
underestimated.

To Richard Carpenter re:  the nature of evil -I believe that there are 
evil actions, but not evil people.  Because change is the most constant 
attribute of life, humans can always make the decision to stop 
committing evil actions.  Anyone can be redeemed.

To Kitty re:  Earl David's relationship with Robert - Let's look at the 
scene in Rutterkin.  When Robert asks for Earl David's blessing, he is 
asking for forgiveness.  Robert knows that he has deserted and betrayed 
his father.  This is not some small faux pas.  The Earl would feel 
tremendous hurt and anger toward Robert.  He doesn't furiously 
castigate his son because Robert had just saved his life.  Therefore he 
owed Robert a measure of courtesy.  He shows this courtesy in a stiff 
and formal manner that conceals his emotions.  Considering how deeply 
wounded he must be, this is a major concession.  Given how he felt, if 
the Earl had frostily refused his blessing, told Robert that he asked 
too much and walked away, Robert would have accepted this and 
understood, yet that isn't what David of Huntington did.  Robert 
mattered enough to him that he couldn't leave his son with nothing but 
cold courtesy between them.  He needed to give Robert that sign of 
forgiveness and that embrace.  These gestures seem undemonstrative to 
effusive Americans, but when you consider Earl David's background and 
his history with Robert even a stiff awkward embrace is significant.
To Louise Bath re:  adopting spiritual traditions from other cultures - 
Although we may be born with a certain genetic heritage, none of us are 
born with a religion.  Ideas aren't innate.  The claim that ethnic 
origin and religion must coincide is actually an example of racist 
ideology.  Another point to consider that hasn't been brought up 
previously in the discussion is that some people had ancestors whose 
religion is lost in the mists of antiquity.  They couldn't practice the 
religion of their ethnic origins if they tried.  Then there is the fact 
that most ancient Pagan religions were syncretic.  This means that they 
adopted deities and practices from other religions.  No tradition is 
pure.  If our ancestors could be syncretic, then why can't we?  To 
avoid cultural imperialism, let Robert of Huntington be your role 
model.  He was a member of the oppressor class and became the adopted 
son of a God of the oppressed.  By giving his life over to Herne and 
Herne's people, he was doing his part to end oppression and making 
reparations on behalf of the nobility.  This is the exact opposite of 
cultural imperialism.

To Siannan re:  deities as "thought forms" - I have a different concept 
of thought forms than you do.  I take it that you believe that deities 
don't exist independently of our own minds, and that is what you mean 
by "thought forms."  I have experienced and witnessed possession 
trance, so I know that deities do exist independently of our own minds.  
It seems to me that the ancient Gods were designed and built by our 
ancestors to represent their highest ideals and aspirations and that 
they continue to exist as astral entities which are fueled by worship.  
The deities that have been worshipped most continuously over the 
centuries are therefore the most powerful.  On the other hand, we are 
entirely capable of creating new deities ourselves based on our highest 
ideals and aspirations and building them up into very powerful entities 
through the focus of our worship.

To Georgia re:  possession - Spirits generally come into our realm when 
they are summoned, and generally don't seize someone's body 
involuntarily unless the individual has offended them.  For example, if 
an individual was chosen by a spirit, and he denies that calling, as 
Robert of Huntington did for a time, the spirit may force him to 
recognize his vocation through an involuntary possession.

To Hilda re:  David of Huntington, the reformer - Where does that 
concept come from?  I think that Earl David couldn't afford to be a 
reformer.  He had to consider the interests of Scotland first and 
foremost.  The reason why he became such a bitter enemy of John 
Lackland was because that Plantagenet wanted to rule all of Great 
Britain - just like his father, Henry II.  The Lionheart didn't care a 
fig for any part of Great Britain.  His main territorial interest was 
in maintaining the Norman power base in France.  That would have been 
fine with David of Huntington.  While Richard was enmired in France, 
he'd leave Scotland alone.

COMMENTS ON MAILING 12

To Christine re:  my attitude - I do not disrespect any Cousin; least 
of all Richard Carpenter.  I do insist on having my own views and 
relying on my own judgment, however.  Do you consider people respectful 
only if they agree with you?

To Christine re:  whether I have read anyone else's RoS -  Because my 
income is limited, I haven't been able to order very many zines.  I 
have managed to read exactly seven RoS zines.  This is a small sample 
and it would be premature for me to draw any conclusions about the work 
of individual writers on the basis of what I've read.  The story that 
I've liked best in the RoS zines I've read so far was "Mirror of Fire" 
by Valerie Meachum in Turn of the Wheel because of the strong female 
viewpoint character and her Goddess worship orientation.  It was 
refreshing to see this in the context of RoS.  I think that writers 
such as Laura Chevening and Janet Reedman write lovely poetic prose 
even if I have problems with their interpretations of the characters.  
It does seem to me that there is a great deal of diversity of character 
interpretation in RoS fan fiction.  The character who is most 
consistently portrayed seems to be Will.  I see a general consensus 
about this character and the way he thinks.  The character who varies 
most wildly from story to story is definitely Much.  There doesn't seem 
to be any kind of consensus about him.  I think this is all to the 
good.  As the youngest member of the band, Much has the most capacity 
for growth and change.  Therefore his character is the least defined.  
He might mature in any number of directions and we should not close off 
any of them.  I would also like to say that I don't consider the 
portrayal of Robin as an immortal creature from Faerie necessarily 
invalid, but in most legendary depictions of the denizens of Faerie 
they are rather indifferent about the fates of mortals.  If Robin 
becomes one of them after his supposed death, would he still care 
enough about humankind to return to the mortal realm?  Even supposing 
he retains enough humanity to return, why would the Faerie folk permit 
it?  If a writer is going to use such a fantastical approach to this 
character, he or she had better be very convincing, and put much more 
thought into motivation.  I would prefer to read stories where Robin 
more closely resembles the all too human man I saw in the series, but I 
haven't found them.  I also wonder where the RoS stories that depict 
magic as a tool for healing and positive change are located.  The only 
uses of magic I have so far seen in RoS zines have been destructive.  
My concern is with balance.  I am not suggesting that all cursing, 
sorcery and magical violence be eliminated from RoS fan fiction, but I 
would like to see equal time given to more benign magical practices.  
Are such stories being written?

To Christine re:  sensitive heterosexual men - I am delighted to know 
that you and others have had good fortune and have met such wonderful 
men, but the statistics of violence perpetrated by heterosexual men 
against the women and children in their lives indicate that a large 
proportion of these men have a very serious problem, and I can't help 
but think that it relates to their attempts to live up to the 
destructive macho stereotype and the related need to prove that they 
aren't homosexual.  Positive portrayals of homosexuals might help to 
obviate the necessity for this intense struggle to establish 
heterosexual male identity.

To Christopher Robin re:  going outside the framework of the show-If 
all fan writers took your advice, RoS fanzines would be out of 
business.  The purpose of fan fiction is to fill in the background and 
events which are missing in the series and to delve into the more 
esoteric aspects that are only mentioned or implied.  This involves 
going beyond what has actually been presented in the episodes which 
only represent a few selected events in the lives of the characters.  
For example, it is perfectly legitimate to take the references to 
Rhiannon and develop them into a Goddess cult.  I have never heard of 
Pagans who worshipped a God without also worshipping a Goddess.  Even 
the most patriarchal Pagan cultures had at least one Goddess.  I feel 
that this is an entirely believable piece of extrapolation.  To use the 
concept of Rhiannon's Wheel for the creation of alternate universes, 
such as one in which one or more RoS characters are gay, is definitely 
a stretch.  The reason why fans write alternate universe stories is not 
because they are lazy.  It is because they think that extrapolating 
what might have happened to RoS characters if one factor were changed 
is a challenging thing to do.  A lazy writer would be satisfied with 
producing formula tales that imitate the episodes with a few minor plot 
variations.  As far as professional Robin Hood is concerned, I have a 
number of totally original concepts dealing with periods in English 
history where Robin Hood has never been placed previously, but when I 
think of the realities of professional publishing, I am always certain 
that these efforts would end up being far less interesting than my fan 
fiction.  You see, there are marketing considerations for the 
professional writer.  The more unusual a novel intended for 
professional publication is, the more difficult it is to market.  
Writers may find it interesting and challenging to pursue new 
directions, but publishers prefer what is safe and most readers prefer 
familiar formula.  You need only glance at any current bestseller list 
to confirm this.  I have a short story and a novelette written in 
collaboration in mass market paperback anthologies.  In order to sell 
them I had to eliminate character development and background that was 
fascinating to me, so they would be at a marketable length.  
Fortunately, there is fan fiction.  Fanzine editors are making a 
relatively small investment because their print runs are low.  They 
don't need to find thousands of readers, but only a hundred or so.  For 
this reason, marketing isn't that much of consideration.  So fan 
writers have far more freedom to take risks, deal with the unusual and 
create complex characters.

To Christopher Robin re:  whether the RoS Robin might ever have had 
sexual contact with another man - Actually, that's the situation I was 
writing about in The Successor.  My alternate Robin doesn't have a gay 
sexual preference at all.  He has occasional encounters with men - just 
as many men throughout history who have defined themselves as 
heterosexual have done.

To Louise Bath re:  Celtic Herne's Sons - If Robin is some sort of 
Welsh or Irish Celt and Robert is a Scottish Celt, then neither Hooded 
Man has any personal stake in the Saxon vs.  Norman struggle that I see 
as one of the central themes of RoS.  Like Ivanhoe, RoS is asking us to 
suspend our historical knowledge and pretend that Saxons and Normans 
were still completely separate peoples in the 12th century and still 
very much at loggerheads.  The cause of Robin Hood is essentially the 
cause of the oppressed Saxon people.  If this cause has no real urgency 
for either Robin or Robert, then why are they in Sherwood?  Why would 
Herne choose Celts to fight a battle that isn't any concern of theirs?  
This makes very little sense to me.  Robin as a Saxon peasant makes a 
great deal of sense.  Robert as the disaffected member of a Normanized 
noble house also makes a great deal of sense.  Could it be that fannish 
writers who make Celts of our heroes are trying to avoid the dimension 
of Saxon vs.  Norman political struggle?  In fact, the stories I've 
read in RoS fanzines seem very de-politicized, and this is extremely 
disappointing to me.  To me, the Hooded Man is a revolutionary.  I 
would like to see Robin being as revolutionary as he was in The King's 
Fool when he lectured Richard Plantagenet on his responsibilities to 
the peasants.  I would like to see Robert being as revolutionary as he 
was in The Cross of St.  Ciricus when he allied himself with a 
heretical Abbot who served the peasants.  I don't mean that I want to 
see fan stories that read like political tracts.  I want to see 
exciting fiction in which the revolutionary struggle of the Saxons 
against the Normans is an integral part of the plot.
To Louise Bath re:  relevant medieval romance novels - There's a Robin 
Hood novel called Elaine the Fair by Timothy Taylor that's essentially 
nothing but a "bodice ripper" - i.e.  an alleged historical novel in 
which the heroine longs to be ravished by the hero, and she eventually 
gets her wish.  To me, its only redeeming value was the bitterly 
cynical attitude that the author took toward the Lionheart, but he also 
seemed to be saying that the English have got to be the stupidest and 
most gullible people in the world if they would worship a King whose 
only accomplishment was to drain his kingdom of resources and fighting 
men.

To Linda Goodall re:  Picts and Scots - According to Ronald Hutton in 
The Pagan Religions of the Ancient British Isles, Picts and Scots were 
Celtic tribes.  On the other hand, according to Juliet Wood's essay on 
the Celts in The Feminist Companion to Mythology (London:  Pandora 
Press, 1992 ISBN O 04 440850 1), the term Celt is very ill-defined and 
the various tribes that were labelled Celtic had too many differences 
to be considered members of one culture.

To Linda Goodall re:  Waltheof of Huntington - There were many who 
wondered whose side Waltheof was on.  It seems likely that he was the 
sort of man who didn't really care so long as his House ended up 
surviving.  Neither Saxons nor Normans really trusted him.  He was 
quick to swear loyalty to the Conqueror and became very Normanized.  
All the Earls of Huntington from Waltheof to the second David seem 
rather pragmatic to me.  Since Normans were in power, they would try to 
blend in and make the best of it.  They were loyal to their own 
interests rather than to principles.  An idealist like Robert must have 
seemed like an alien within his own family.
To Siannan re:  fan writers excusing Gisburne - I can't speak for 
anyone else, but I'm not doing that.  I am portraying the slow process 
of recovery whose goal is taking responsibility for one's actions.  An 
abused child who blames himself for his own victimization, may continue 
to follow the same logic in later life.  If his abuse was his own fault 
then the people he victimizes must also be guilty.  He must first 
acknowledge that he wasn't responsible for his own abuse before he can 
understand what he has done to others.
To Hilda re:  "someone has stolen my rowboat"-
	Over the sea came the Saracen Nasir
	And lost his rowboat in an English pier
	He followed thieves north and west
	But they never confessed
	So he's taken up poaching the deer.
Yes indeed, Hilda, you may delete my description and interests from WHO 
WE ARE.  My $5 is enclosed as usual.  [Thank you!  On both counts!  -H]
Herne Protect You and Yours.


Anda Hall
Dear Cousins, Greetings.  Thank you to those of the warm welcomes.  
Warm welcome to our new cousins.

Christine Haire:  Thank you for the info on obtaining episodes.  
Finally got cable in mid-January (nagging pays sometimes) and saw some 
Robin episodes and some Robert episodes before the station ended the 
series last week.

Re:  Questions:  1) I think Meg should have joined John in the forest.  
Life couldn't have been much rougher anyway.  One book version of Robin 
Hood has him with a regular community hidden in Sherwood.  2) I believe 
in resurrection - which is the raising of the body of flesh and 
bringing it to its perfected form and reuniting it with its spirit 
body.  I don't understand how this is accomplished, but I think it 
remarkable that we are here in bodies of flesh in the first place.  3) 
I believe in ghosts.  We all have one - that's the spirit/life force 
part of us.

Questions 1 and 2 lead me to ask, "What would be the problem(s) with 
resurrecting (or even raising from the dead) Robin of Loxley, forty 
arrows in the back, shredded to pieces, decayed and fallen to dust or 
burned to ash and scattered X (as in variable, not Christ) number of 
years and all?  What a mess!  (If Mr. Carpenter doesn't wanna, he 
doesn't wanna.  Good enough reason.)

Linda Frankel:  Re:  God(s) in one person.  I myself always wondered 
how God, or Jesus, threw his voice from heaven after Jesus came out of 
the water to claim him as his son, and then there is that dove form...
Re:  institutionalized Christian Church spewing filth on all human 
intimacy except in marriage.  I thought it respected human intimacy, 
especially among family and friends.  Intimacy doesn't include just 
that of a sexual relationship.  We are encouraged to "love one 
another," but not necessarily sexually.  Marriage makes a statement 
that you care or love or respect a person well enough to make it known 
to the community at large (really the extension of the family) that you 
are willing to put your main efforts into building a better life for 
the person you care about and yourself.  I think the filth is in some 
jealous little minds, not the church as such.  And there's yet another 
example of "the twain shall be one" thing.

Julie Phipps:  Re:  Beat that?  Which way?  Uphill?  I'm 5'O."  
Downhill?  My mother is 4'9" and that was the max before shrinkage, 
which reminds me.  Rule #1:  Never pick on an adult smaller than you - 
you'll get slaughtered!  Rule #2:  Never pick on an adult larger than 
you - you could get hurt.  Rule #3:  Never pick on Siannan - you could 
get turned into a toad!  Ribbit!  ;-)  I'm willing to bet you have a 
terrible time finding clothes, huh?

Laura Woodswalker Todd:  Re:  Agree on ethnic group "purity."  Some of 
us are "Heinz 57's," not even close to "Ivory's" 99.9% pureness.  In 
the place of my origin, the people are reputed to speak "pure 
Elizabethan English" (ha!), but there are many French names mixed in 
with the English.  Maybe that's one way the Normans and the Saxons got 
back at each other - nobody's either.  There are so many interesting 
cultures in the world that it would be a pity for people to cut 
themselves off from all the rest.

Kris Clark:  Be patient - we're all not there yet; or is it not all 
there?  :-) 

Christopher Robin:  Beautiful comments on the television program being 
just that.  It is fun and leads to a lot of deep thinking, but for many 
people, it is just a surface thing.  I just like to poke around in all 
the little nooks and crannies.

Louise Bath:  Re:  Sacred kings, human sacrifice.  Cain began human 
sacrifice when he slew Abel for gain.  I think the same thing does 
occur today on a larger scale and there are a great number of people 
who would not hesitate to kill or cause the death of another person if 
it would benefit themselves.

Re:  Cousin Spur.  He was the delightful swiller in The Son of Herne 
who gave Gisburne a difficult time before rendering "aid" to catch the 
outlaws by bellowing, "Make way for the Watch!" loud enough for the 
dead to hear, let alone any outlaws lurking about.  Scatlock and 
Ambrose were fun, too.  All the episodes I've seen are chock full of 
goodies in the form of characters, customs, sets, whatever.  Thank you, 
thank you, Mr. Carpenter and company!

Re:  Gulnar wanting Marion for himself.  My young daughter said, "No 
wonder all the men want her [Marion], she's as pretty as a rose in 
bloom!"  Gulnar was a man of sorts, wasn't he?

Re:  to Lynn on Robin having a female mentor and could viewers handle 
it?  In The Veiled Sultan by March Cost (The Vanguard Press, Inc., New 
York, 1969), it is interesting how much influence a woman (mother) can 
wield concerning her son and, in this case, supposedly as a "slave."    
I think a woman can be a mentor to a man without a sexual relationship, 
and it could be done in Robin's case also without it necessarily being 
his mother either.

Re:  Books in the New Testament.  They're there because of a lot of 
finagling, politics, and luck.  Like potatoes - you can fix them up in 
a lot of different ways and they're still potatoes.  Truth gets fixed 
up just about the same ways.

Siannan:  Re:  Brothers and half-sisters.  Eew!  But, in the Old 
Testament, Sarah was the half-sister and wife of Abraham and through 
her came the covenant child or rightful heir, Isaac.

Re:  We are saviors of this world.  Amen and verses:  "For they [the 
Lord's people] were set to be a light unto the world, and to be the 
saviors of men; And inasmuch as they are not the saviors of men, they 
are as salt that has lost its savor, and is thenceforth good for 
nothing but to be cast out and trodden under foot of men."  (Doctrine 
and Covenants, Section 103:9-10).

Jacquie Groom:  Re:  Cousin Spur and Ambrose as porters in a hospital.  
A person could die laughing!

Georgia Fleming:  Loved definition of my name you sent in:  "Anda" 
means "vexation" in Anglo-Saxon.  Thanks.  My husband agreed, saying, 
"They got that just about right!"  He meant "humongous vexation" would 
be more accurate.  Have I got it or what?

Re:  Jesus' combined humanity and godhood.  Yes, I see a difference 
between saying part god and part human as opposed to fully god and 
fully human.  Fully god would mean not having the ability to die in the 
flesh.  Fully human would mean not having the ability to live forever 
in the flesh.  Partly human would mean having the ability to lay down 
his life.  Partly god would mean having the ability to take it back up 
for eternity.  (I thought a long time on this one and am still 
thinking.)

Re:  Godhood.  Isis would be really ticked off if I were to say, "Isis, 
honey, I'd like to use that pedestal awhile now, okay?"  She'd have 
every right to zap me into wherever.  Neither of us would want to share 
pedestal nor form with the other.  Why should we have to?  Besides, I 
really like me the greater part of the time.  If I become a goddess, I 
will be myself - me, me, me!  Isis would be - Isis, Isis, Isis.  You 
would be - you, you, you!

Re:  "Real" gods.  Are our gods real enough to create us, or are we 
real enough to create them?  Real is what?

"Before" could be said "most high" or "highest."  I am continuing to 
search for the correct documentation, but it is my understanding that 
Elohim is the name of God the Father.

When I say become gods, I mean that as children of our earthly mothers 
and fathers, we have the capabilities to mature to be like them as 
children of or parents in heaven (gods), we also have the capabilities 
to mature like them.  As to definition of "god," personal experiences 
color our ideas of that.  Immortality?  Yes.  Omniscience?  Most 
likely.  (Mind-boggling.)  Power to create?  Certainly.  To what 
extent?  Who knows?  "As man is, God was; as God is, man may become."  
(Answers to Gospel Questions, Vol, II, Joseph Fielding Smith, p. 127.)
To call God Woden, or Woden God, decide for yourself.  That's what 
you're supposed to do.  "A rose by any other name..."

The King James Version of the Holy Bible, which I use, says in Amos 
5:23-24 "Take thou away from me the noise of thy songs; for I will not 
hear the melody of thy viols.  But let judgment run down as waters, and 
righteousness as a mighty stream."

And, just before that, in verse 18, "Woe unto you that desire the day 
of the LORD!  to what end is it for you?  the day of the LORD is 
darkness, and not light."  Plainly put, a lot of those who look forward 
to the last day for the Lord to come in triumph are not going to be 
standing on ground as high as they thought it was.

Questions for anybody:  Did Nasir carry a metal/steel bow?  Did it keep 
its spring or did it need to be replaced if it was metal?

Hilda:  Hello, most patient person in the world (as I know it).  Sorry 
this has run on past "The Page of Insanity."  (Miss Manners says anyone 
who writes letters four pages long is crazy and according to my 
figures, I'm on page/column five, sooo...)  There was a lot of great 
subjects and comments and thoughts from everyone, but I don't want to 
be a complete swine - Rutterkin might start bullying me around and I'd 
have to cook his bacon.

About the Bible verses for defense against harassment - I've copied so 
many I feel like a monk!  Where is Tuck when you need him?  Anyone 
interested can drop me a legal-sized SASE and I'll be happy to help any 
way I can, but keep in mind:  some people are pretty THICK and don't 
really THINK.  Good luck anyway.  (I would prefer turning them into 
toads, but it's not really nice and I haven't been able to do it yet.)  
[Why be redundant?  :-)  Thanks for the joke, Starhawk; and my 
apologies, honest members of the genus Bufo.  -H]

As always, please cut my duplications and less interesting observations 
and be happy.  I'm looking forward to next time.  Best wishes and 
Blessed Be.

Jacquie Groom
Dear Cousins, the school holidays have just started, so in between 
children running everywhere and trying to get ready for our holiday in 
a few days' time, I thought I'd try to reply to issue #12.

Christine:  Your new topics of discussion remind me of my daughter 
Emily, who is 5 and currently coming up with questions of that type for 
me nearly every day.  I sometimes find it difficult to answer, 
especially when it touches on matters of belief.  It's so hard to know 
what to tell her when I'm still trying to work out what I believe in 
myself.  The other day it was, "Witches don't exist, do they?"  I tried 
to tell her that witches and witchcraft do exist, but old ladies in 
black with warts on their noses who put little boys in cages to fatten 
up, don't.  (I know what she's been reading, and don't want any more 
nightmares!)  Anyway, here goes:

(1) I always had the vague impression that Meg couldn't join the 
Outlaws in Sherwood because of the repercussions it would have for 
Wickham.  But whether that is something I actually heard, made up, or 
read in a zine, I don't know.  And although I'd love to sit down and 
watch the whole series through to find out, unfortunately I don't 
really have the time.

(2) I do believe in reincarnation, although I've no proof, or 
experiences, or anything like that.

(3) I believe in ghosts.  I saw one once, when I was four, in the 
hallway of our house.  My parents insisted it was a dream, but I can 
still see, and hear, the man so clearly, even now.  And I can't 
remember any other dreams from my childhood.  The house where we lived 
has now been knocked down, and there is a car park there instead.  I've 
been past there a few times, and often wonder what happened to him.
Julie Phipps:  the bog man... that brings back some horrible memories 
of history classes - it's strange, I love reading history books, but 
hated it at school.  Looking forward to your Casualty story sometime.
Louise Bath:  I really enjoy your 'Saxons v. Celts' discussion.  Out of 
curiosity, I looked up "fey" in the dictionary - although it is noted 
as Scottish, it comes from the Old English faege, and the Old Saxon feÐgi 
as well as other etymological roots - so to me, that seems to prove 
that Saxons can be fey!

Janet Reedman:  I'll have to try and find Rosemary Sutcliffe's 
Arthurian novels - I've only read her Roman ones (Eagle of the Ninth, 
the Lantern Bearers, etc.)   And talking of Romans, has anyone else 
read Lindsey Davis' Falco novels?

About Stonehenge and its info centre - there was an article in the 
latest English Heritage magazine outlining the six different 
possibilities for the new centre.  Apparently there are questionnaires 
so people can choose which they would prefer.  If anyone is interested, 
I'll photocopy it.

Irena Armstrong:  I also enjoyed Riders.  The video arrived in the 
post, and I sat down, meaning to watch five minutes to check it had 
recorded correctly... and four hours later, I was still there!  Not 
sure if it was because of the wondrous presence of Michael Praed, 
curiosity as to how they had altered the book, or simply because it was 
very watchable - but I really enjoyed it.

On music:  I've given up defending my taste in music - or lack of it, 
as most people would (and have) put it.  I like what I like, and if 
that includes Jason Donovan, Andy Gibb, Clannad, Chris Rea and the 
theme music from The Heroes - well, that's what I like.  However, has 
anyone else heard Alan Stivell's The Mist of Avalon, which was inspired 
by Marion Zimmer Bradley's book?  He's a French musician - or perhaps I 
should say Breton.  [Yes!  Say "Breton."  It's more precise, and far 
more accurate!  -H]  It's a real mixture, but uses a lot of Breton folk 
tunes as well as Gaelic, Welsh, and other influences - in fact, he 
seems to have 'hijacked' the theme for the Breton cause.  The quotation 
at the beginning, roughly translated, says, "The sword from the Golden 
Age, rediscovered, will reunite at last the two souls broken by the 
same blade, and the Breton people will join the unity of Keltia, 
Arthur's great dream at last come true, the city of peace."  Still, 
it's interesting.

On Loxley vs. Huntingdon.  One for Robert.  Although I like Loxley, and 
really enjoyed the first two series, I was not totally hooked until I 
met Huntingdon... and that was when I started to write RoS stories.  I 
find Loxley stories almost impossible to write.

As a final note, a newspaper headline caught my eye the other day - it 
said "Sheriff denies fiddle."  I read further, and sure enough, it was 
the Sheriff of Nottingham, but circa 1990, not 1190.  Nice to know some 
things don't change.

Hope to meet some of you at Greenwood...  Blessed be.

Hilda
Frances Q. - OVU... I mean, Thank you for your patience with my limited 
decryption abilities, and please excuse my wild guesses on people's and 
places' names.

I saw Clannad in concert right here in Somerville on June 11.  They 
were touring with a lot of fantastic musicians, including a great 
flute/sax/clarinet player, an awesome guitarist, and two backing 
vocalists (one of whom is yet another Brennan sister).  They did an 
impressive medley of RoS tunes, including a couple that (as far as I 
know) never made it onto vinyl; but as of this writing I don't have 
Banba yet.

I hope your dog is feeling better and no longer has a flat tire, and 
that whatever happened to her doesn't happen again!  See you at 
Greenwood.

Francie:  Welcome!  I agree, characters who are pulled in conflicting 
directions are the most fun to read about.  I think that the reason we 
need characters like Loxley too is to make fantasy fantasy.  Also, 
characters who have clear direction and know exactly what they want to 
do ring an important bell for the reader, reminding us of our times of 
strength and surety and keeping us from forgetting our own part in the 
pattern of things.  Everyone's got a setting in which they know their 
way and can be the one to make the difference - remember Crocodile 
Dundee, the ultimate City Mouse/Country Mouse story?  Me at a keyboard 
and me on a cliff face are two different characters...

Kris - If anyone has anything to say that they intend as a joke, they 
can put a Smiley :-) next to it to let us know.  Every time you see a 
Smiley, that means that someone's joking.  Remember this, folks - you 
lose facial and vocal expression in a printed newsletter, so let us see 
you laughing!  Or :..( crying, or :-P sticking your tongue out, or :-[ 
sprouting fangs...

Re:  Michael's buns - I just saw an adorable picture of Michael doing 
some sort of charity cooking show in England, tray of biscuits in hand.  
They looked nice and hot!

Tara - I'm really rusty on the subject of knighthood :-) but wouldn't 
Robert, having been so highly born, look a bit odd in a bestowed title?  
I tend to think of knights as having been hired by strong houses and 
granted lands and titles on the basis of meritorious service, which 
would make knighting Robert a bit of a demotion unless he were in the 
direct employ of either William the Lion or King John.  Is this 
anything like accurate?

I kind of get grumpy with people who cheer for the "pagans" in The 
Wicker Man too.  The latter are an awkward attempt at reconstructing 
paleo-Paganism without the cultural context that would give it meaning.  
Plus, I have a hard time trusting any deity who'd accept an unwilling 
sacrifice (especially one who isn't even a criminal or prisoner of 
war).  The Wicker Man does sort of fall into the "defamation" category, 
doesn't it?  But still, it's a good movie just as entertainment, and 
it's got some fabulous songs.

The Faery "tiend to Hell" was probably invented by Christian 
invaders/evangelists, perhaps as an explanation of human sacrifice.  To 
reconcile the two disparate mythologies, you'd probably have to concoct 
a sort of treaty situation, with JHVH refusing all offers to deal with 
anyone else metaphysical because "Thou shalt have no other god before 
me," leaving the Faery to try and cut a deal with the Man Downstairs.  
I expect that the latter would accept a paltry single mortal soul per 
year just to keep the unpredictable Sidhe out of his hair.

Woodswalker - I think of Robin and Marion as a 'super couple' precisely 
because Robin could say stupid things about how Marion shouldn't go on 
raids and Marion could whack Robin with tree branches and dump water on 
his head when he was hung over.  I can't see Marion even hollering at 
Robert, or Robert underestimating Marion's competence.  It's almost as 
though Marion reverted to the noble reserve of her upbringing when 
dealing with Robert, maybe as a shield against the vulnerability of an 
open, honest, and sometimes explosive partnership like she had with 
Robin.  I personally tend to prefer Marion/Robin stories to 
Marion/Robert stories, at least among the ones I've seen so far, 
because Marion and Robin can play tricks on each other, be more 
playful, and take risks.

Happiness isn't necessarily boring in fiction, but to write interesting 
happiness is a real challenge.  Angst gives a writer something to keep 
things moving.  Getting a reader to share characters' happiness is much 
harder, since then all you've got is your own plot idea, language 
skills, and understanding of the characters to carry the story.  
Without the familiarity of emotional pain, your characters really have 
to speak for themselves.

Interesting idea about Robert having been molested as a child.  Usually 
that sort of thing tends to result in a sense of powerlessness, a 
"victim" mentality, and random lashings-out... but it's clear that 
Robert is an exceptional person, and besides, that's what fiction is 
for!

Your comments about using the Gods as an excuse for abuse must ring a 
bell for everyone.  One of my best friends was nearly raped by a man 
claiming to be "possessed by Herne."  Once she recovered from her 
astonishment, she did the most logical thing - gave the man to Herne to 
do with as He chose.  That's as far as her story went.  I didn't press 
her for further details.  I don't think they'd have been pleasant.
There are covens and spiritual circles without designated leaders.  On 
the whole they don't tend to last long, since with nobody to sort out 
who writes the invocation for West, who rents the meeting space, who 
makes the phone calls, and who brings the cookies, people tend to just 
sort of "trust in the Goddess" :-( and hope Someone More Together Than Me 
will take care of everything.  Leaders needn't be evil exploiters - 
they can be people who egg you on, remind you that you are basically 
Together, and hold you to it - but folks like that are a rare breed, 
and seldom popular.  Likewise, leaderless groups do occasionally last a 
while if they have some role definition (i.e. by election or common 
agreement) - Jane maintains the phone list, Al handles inquiries about 
the group, Susan keeps track of who's writing the next ritual, etc.  
But even this can flop in a hurry if, by extension, Jane is assumed to 
be responsible for making all phone calls, Al for dealing with all 
harassment, and Susan for writing all the rituals if nobody else is up 
to it.

It's possible to like both Clannad and Black Sabbath!  Very easy, in 
fact.  I like Mozart and The Watersons too.  As my old math teacher 
used to say:  "Never ASSUME.  It just makes an ASS of U and ME."  Let's 
face it - if we fit into some neat little pigeonhole, we wouldn't be 
here!  Just as an example, when the Massachusetts Merries get together, 
half the time we end up talking about Deep Space 9 or figure skating!  
I jabber at length about the former, and when the latter comes up, I 
stuff my face in respectful silence.  It all works out.  There's no 
sense in trying to prove that you're an outlaw among outlaws.  Unless 
someone acts with genuine malice, there are no outcasts here.  (Got 
that, Arthur of Brittany?)

Wyvern:  Yes, Who We Are is quite long enough already!  Anyone else 
willing to delete or shorten their self-description blurb this time 
around?  Please???  Thanks to all who said "yes!"

I actually really appreciated Aunt Umbra's metaphor for people who 
twist other people's characters in the name of "art," just as a rapist 
tortures other people and calls it "sex."  I found it very apt.  "Rape 
has absolutely nothing to do with sex!" was precisely A.U.'s point.
My birth date is June 11 (1961, to be precise).  Anyone else who sends 
in their birth date - how about I just put it next to your name in Who 
We Are?

Ariel - Re:  leaders being willing to die for their people, I'd like to 
see someone elected President who didn't care whether she 
coincidentally found her aorta perforated the moment she attempted 
something that might cut into some multinational's profit margin.  It 
wouldn't be her death per se that made the difference, but her courage 
to do something that she knew the CIA wouldn't like and to heck with 
the repercussions.  Alas, such a candidate would probably never make it 
as far as the ballot.

Georgia - I picked a boar and a salmon out of the blue.  Maybe it means 
I was bored and jumping to conclusions?  Or hogging the chance to tell 
a fish story?

"Drawing down the Moon" means inviting/invoking the Goddess to possess 
either oneself or a covenmate.  I've heard some people talk about 
spending years trying (with or without success) to achieve the 
necessary level of openness; and others constantly drop the casual 
"...I'd had enough; so I drew down and told that jerk..."  "When" is 
usually the full moon.  "Where" is either in a coven meeting or 
wherever one happens to be if one is a solitary.  "Why" - the Goddess 
might want to answer questions or offer advice; or to warn someone 
who's making a mistake.  The individual Witch might want to offer the 
Goddess a willing vessel before She drafts another sort!  "How" - 
dancing and/or chanting of the rest of the coven while the designated 
vessel awaits possession; or dancing/chanting/ meditation if you're 
solitary (I'm sure other methods are used, these are just the ones I 
know about).  By whom - someone with either a whole lot of guts, or a 
whole lot of gall!  My single experience in that department, of course, 
followed none of the rules.  I was dressed as the Crone, complete with 
wig and make-up, waiting to turn up "late" for a Samhain ritual in a 
bit of thespian reality-shifting.  I stood quietly in a side room for 
nearly an hour, just looking at myself in a mirror.  I was very gently 
nudged, and replied informally but politely, "If you want to do it, 
it's fine with me."  The rest is history - or at least I'm told it was 
pretty interesting; I only remember bits and pieces in scrambled order.  
Guard the Mysteries:  reveal them constantly.  :-) 
So who can I play in the Hereward movie?

Nancy - Great to hear from you again!  I'm glad you liked my Adam Bell 
vignette.  He's such an interesting character, teetering between his 
original humanitarian ideals and a frantic need to prove himself by 
being The Enemy at any cost.  Makes you wonder a little about (sit 
down) Adam's family...

Perhaps you know a good spell for getting access to Peter Gabriel 
tickets?  A nice strong one?  I agree about Security.  It's too good an 
album to even begin to describe.  I wouldn't recommend driving while 
listening to it, though!

"America's Stonehenge" is indeed an interesting place.  It consists of 
a circle of stones aligned to the Solstices and Equinoxes, which in 
turn contains a number of half-subterranean barrows, smaller circles, 
and other bits of meso/ neolithic-style dry-stone masonry (including 
one piece popularly known as the Sacrificial Table).  It's been 
"reconstructed" beyond recognition by everyone from an ambitious 
shoemaker to Norse-culture buffs convinced that it's a Viking site, but 
it's still very much worth a visit.  The wooded setting is enjoyable in 
any season, and the discorporate inhabitants seem to me to be easygoing 
and pleasant, if somewhat shy.  There's a little museum displaying 
various artifacts, and informative site tours are available.  I was 
last there on August 1 a couple years ago, offering homemade bread and 
snarfing fistfuls of blueberries.  Full circle.  (I even got stung by a 
very authentic bee.)

Thank you for the appreciation!  It's better than chocolate, postage 
stamps, or even pictures of Loxley.  Pass it on:  aside from saving up 
to buy a computer, I don't do anything anybody else couldn't do.  
Everybody has a different style; but with people like you, anything is 
possible!

Thank you, also, for the fantastic poem.  I always liked St. Francis.  
He was a low-key, teach-by-example kind of person - and now I learn he 
was an excellent poet, too!

Judi - Great to hear from you!  I agree that the band were hasty in 
accepting Mark, but I thought that letting Arthur of Brittany join was 
a trick on him all along just to see what he was up to.

Would Robin have let Meg join the band?  You like to play with 
explosives, don't you, Judi?  :-)  Seriously, I think it would depend on 
exactly when you asked him.  Certainly not before Marion went after him 
with that branch!  Maybe if Meg got them out of some kind of trouble, 
and asked there and then... but that's really Apocryphal...  <Sound of 
keyboard rattling frantically into the night>  I guess Janet V. and 
company have a point in that any villager joining the band would be 
signing their village's death warrant... provided, of course, that the 
nobility knew (or cared) who lived in which village!  Let's ask King 
John:  "And where's this 'Meg' from?  Wickham, Lichfield, Elsdon, under 
a hill, out of a convent, escaped from Castle Belleme... This one 
insists she's a Saracen!  A Saracen!"

Blythe - Ahh, Bath.  One of very few places I stayed more than a day, 
and lots of fun to explore, if you're not a total airhead.  If you're a 
total airhead and forget to bring a nice present to Sulis Minerva on 
your visit to the baths, your favorite earring goes missing.  (Still, I 
suppose, if anyone's going to make off with my gold snake pentacle...)

Julie - I believe that the original intention for the fourth series was 
for Marion to help the outlaws now and then, and to leave the convent 
and marry Robert at the end of the series.  Kip wasn't happy with 
ending at "The Time of the Teeth" either!
                         

Thank you for the gorgeous Caretaker photos!  I guess I can forgive 
Michael for looking like a high-school student...

Thank you, also, for the lovely poem!  Good choice.

Do away with May Day?  WHY?  You may never know how exasperating it is 
for someone without a coherent cultural heritage to watch England try 
to abolish May Day!  Well, I'll tell you this much:  the government can 
cut little squares out of all the calendars, outlaw bells, and declare 
"Hal-An-Tow" a swear word, but nothing is going to wipe out that 
rebellious green rejoicing in the renewal of life; and nothing is going 
to deprive England of its uniquely English celebration of it.  Some 
anthropologist will hoard it in the basement of a Polish library.  Some 
Arizona schoolteacher will decide that teaching Morris dancing to 
second-graders might be fun.  Some obscure Kenyan flutist will record 
the tunes in her basement.  But it will survive, and it will come home!  
All together, gang:  So mote it be!

Donna - Maybe you don't write stories, but you tell the truth in such a 
way that it dances and challenges and teases and makes itself 
impossible to ignore.  You're one amazing poet, as proven by your 
letter.  I'm honored to play a part in your life.  Thank you.

Morgana - Here's a yummy can of worms on the theme of "ancestry vs. 
spirituality."  Can anyone name a tradition which is clearly oriented 
towards people of its corresponding racial composition, and no one 
else?  There are plenty of stories of conquerors legislating adherence 
to their imported religions.  How about traditions which are 
specifically (in their roots, not in modern politics) forbidden or at 
best grudgingly tolerated in non-products of the originating gene pool?  
Are there deities who actively dislike being honored by "foreigners?"
What can you tell me about Romanian spirituality?  I have no idea of 
what that might be like.

Some coven sent you a flyer?  Was it mostly information about Circle 
(the Wisconsin organization), or was it an invitation to check out the 
coven itself?  If the latter, how did that work out?  I tend to be 
really suspicious of groups who do any more to attract members than 
quietly announce their existence and describe themselves in safe 
circles.  Matter of fact, I'd like to know how other people have fared 
with groups you've contacted or been contacted by.  What do y'all think 
about outreach?  When does it become proselytization?  When does it 
become outright dangerous?

Thank you for the Bear and Deer correspondences!  Now I'll pretend I'm 
a Native American looking at English history.  I see Herne's people as 
a sort of practical, accepting culture accustomed to the differences 
between tribes and to differing attitudes toward intertribal strife.  
It seems pretty logical that the Bear's vision of the individual quest 
for inner knowing would appeal to both the upper-class warrior, who 
wants to know exactly what she's fighting for; and the farmer, who 
thinks that war only wrecks the crops and keeps people apart.
I'm glad the ritual worked out well for you, but I take exception to 
your implication that you crank out more arrogant verbosity than I do!  
Blessed be.
Susan - It would have been a much smoother transition if Robert had 
joined the band while Robin was still the leader... but would he have 
joined at all?  Robert's sense of duty and honor would have been 
goading him to return to Huntingdon, where he was already needed as the 
sole heir.  I think that it was the fact that he was unquestionably 
needed as a leader that kept him with the band after Marion's rescue.  
It took a lot to tear him away from the promise made in his name at his 
birth; that he would take care of Huntingdon and its people because 
nobody else would.  I think it was the fact that nobody could replace 
him in Sherwood either that tipped the balance in favor of the outlaw 
life.

I would hesitate to call Marion's familiarity with herbology as 
evidence that she had knowledge of the Craft.  Although the Sheriff 
might consider healing of the physical body "interfering with the will 
of God" (at least to get his steward out of trouble!), the countryfolk 
probably took Jesus' "heal the sick" advice quite literally and went 
about it whatever way they knew would work.  They probably thought 
that, when someone was bitten by a snake, Jesus wanted them to take the 
root of dwarf elder "...and ere thou carve it off hold it in thine hand 
and say thrice nine times Omnes malas bestias canto, that is in our 
language Enchant and overcome all evil wild deer; then carve it off 
with a very sharp knife into three parts."  The time required to cook 
or pound or otherwise prepare herbal remedies was often measured in 
paternosters and other Christian prayers, even when the application of 
the medicine itself was accompanied by entreaties to mysterious 
blacksmiths, mothers, the wind, or the very influence that was causing 
the malady.

At any rate, I do agree that Marion never seemed to have experienced a 
vocation to the life of a nun.  Like many otherwise marriageable women 
of her day, she just seemed to see Christ as a more tolerable husband 
than any of the other available choices.  Kip's letter in Issue 6 gave 
a good idea of just how indulgent a husband Christ could be at the 
time!

I use the Robin Wood deck too.  It's clear but still leaves plenty to 
the imagination, and she's not afraid of strong color.  By the way, 
Much as the Sun is perfect!

Grace Meisel offered long ago to compile a database of people's books - 
I presume that she's still at it, if anyone's sent her their lists!

Re:  What Can We Do? - Here's something to think about for Samhain, and 
you can do it with Pagans or non-Pagans as you choose.  Find a local 
food bank or homeless shelter that accepts canned or nonperishable 
food.  Ask them for some flyers about their organization.  Then get 
some friends together, put on your costumes and backpacks, and go out 
at your neighborhood's planned Trick-or-Treat time.  When your neighbor 
opens the door, say "Trick-or-treat for Somerville Homeless Coalition" 
(or whatever), explain that you're asking for cans of food rather than 
candy, and offer them a flyer.  Many people will instead prefer to 
write checks to your chosen charity, or even give you cash - and if it 
rains like it rained here last Samhain, you'll be inundated with candy 
too!  This is actually based on an old Irish Samhain tradition, in 
which people would dress up as the tribe's ancestors and collect food 
and money for those members of the community whose crops had failed.  
Any Mass. Merries who'd like to try this in Somerville this year, 
please let me know!  (We'll also need a car to bring all the food to 
SHC.)

Louise:  I think that "Satanic Ritual Abuse" exists, and will exist as 
long as disturbed people abuse other people and believe in scapegoats.  
Ritual abuse is committed in many names, not just Satan's.  Remember 
Charles Manson?  Jim Jones?  David Koresh?  None of those sickos took 
responsibility for their acts.  They were all acting on "orders."
I pinched that "Do you want to be slaves to the Welsh?" comment from 
the Sheriff because it sounds so much like the Cold War's red-baiting, 
or the current "Do you want the United States to become a third-world 
country?"  I expect that Robert de Rainault, had he considered public 
relations a worthwhile pursuit, might have explained to the peasants 
that the King's acquisitiveness was simply "protecting English 
interests."

I, too, agree with Ariel that RoS and magic aren't the only interesting 
topics in the world.  But for me, they're the ones worth editing a 
newsletter about.  Rather than foundering Cousins in a sea of random 
chat, folks can feel free to pick a penpal or two.  That's what penpals 
are for, as you yourself well know!  :-) 

I agree with your comments on fighting oppression with what works, even 
if it's not necessarily what feels satisfying.  Reminds me of a cartoon 
I saw of two white guys discussing Nelson Mandela:  "He's educated, 
soft-spoken, logical, polite..." The other agrees:  "...Dangerous."
A book which I truly enjoyed, and which featured Cartimandua and an 
illustrious host of others, was Pauline Gedge's The Eagle and the 
Raven.  The past tense is because my copy's gone missing.  :-( 

I'm still not sure why you're confusing us with the Anglophobes who 
seem to surround you in droves.  You may have to look elsewhere for 
your "further castigation..."  Anyway, thanks for the interesting info 
on how the various peoples inhabiting England are relating to each 
other nowadays.

If I remember right, St. Hilda was simply outvoted.  I do agree re:  
what a shame it is that Celtic (and one might even say Christian, as 
opposed to Pauline/Augustinian) Christianity has become such a rarity.  
Thanks for the loan of Anthony Duncan's book The Elements of Celtic 
Christianity, Ruth!  (Element Books Ltd., Longmead, Shaftesbury, 
Dorset; 1992, ISBN 1-85230-360-3)

Would a Celt speak out against the sufferings of the English?  Sure, if 
he was Robin Hood!  Robin, for me, is more connected with the Forest 
and the very land of England than with any particular one of the races 
who have populated Her.  If England's children were tearing each other 
apart, Her son might well have plenty to say about that!
My comment on Xianity as currently practiced being aimed at emotional 
toddlers was a reference to its proffered motivations (Heaven and Hell) 
and means of control (belittlement, guilt, threats).  I didn't mean 
that Jesus would approve, or that there aren't people who see and honor 
Jesus in the living world.  They're just sadly uncommon, statistically 
speaking.

Your analysis of Lilith the Child-Strangler is very close to Dr. 
Koltuv's:  she sees Lilith's prey as the childish fear of independence 
that is unhealthy in an adult.

"Welk" was a by-product of a poor choice of typeface.  The word I typed 
was "weik."  Sounds sort of like "wicker" or "wick."

Best I could figure, the Branch Davidians were a personality cult 
centered around the charismatic lunatic David Koresh and calling itself 
Christian.

I know what you mean about the recession making people penny-wise and 
pound-foolish.  A good friend of mine is the only gainfully employed 
parent of two children (his wife refuses to work outside the home), so 
he accepted his father-in-law's offer of a well-paid job at a high-tech 
weapons company.  He appears to get through it with a stolid "It can't 
really happen to my kids" paralogic, but I can see in his eyes that he 
doesn't really believe it.

Siannan:  I'm not surprised that nothing happened when you touched the 
object labelled "do not touch."  My guess as to the motivation of the 
person who posted the sign is a desire to protect the object from the 
effects of repeated touching.  It's a shame that we've been exposed to 
so many meaningless rules, backed up by only a might-makes-right 
"because I say so" threat, that any rule whose utility isn't 
immediately apparent looks like a challenge!

Re:  Kris' comments on feeling left out.  All fans do matter, no matter 
where we live!  But there's a difference between "mattering" and having 
everything we want.  RoS fandom is, by and large, a working-
class/student population.  I wish with all my heart that we had what it 
takes to have conventions everywhere and publish newsletters all day 
instead of going to work.  Nobody's purposely excluding anyone.  We 
simply can't afford to offer all the nice things that members of more 
well-heeled fandoms can.  We're just broke.  Peasants, even.
Your comments on why the clubs should take complaints re:  the speed of 
their replies as compliments reminds me of a story my mother told me.  
She and her sister washed the dishes one Mother's Day when they were 
little girls.  Grandma's reaction to that was:  "I didn't know you were 
old enough to do that!  You can wash the dishes from now on."  Not even 
a "thank you."  There's a big difference between appreciation and 
taking people for granted.  The club folks are already giving more than 
most people would consider sane, all out of love.  If their service 
isn't up to for-profit snuff, it may have something to do with the fact 
that they're taking a loss on their efforts and holding down paying 
jobs.

What are tules?

When I wrote "Evil Among Us," I wasn't specifically thinking of 
defeatism as a manifestation of Satan, or even the other way around.  
The funny thing about Satan is that, back when he was the angel 
Lucifer, he was an ardent opponent of mindlessness.  An entertaining 
angle on this enigmatic character is the hilarious movie Bedazzled.  
Big laughs for sure!

I agree 100% on how learning for learning is a lot more fun than 
learning for grades.  The most tragic thing about the competition and 
tedium of school is that it teaches so many people to hate learning, 
and subsequently consider themselves slaves to a "short attention span" 
or simply too stupid to understand, when really they're just 
discouraged by pressure to perform under uninspiring circumstances.  
For years after I dropped out of college, I wouldn't pick up a book and 
felt uncomfortable in bookstores.  Likewise, I'd bet money that people 
who hate to write letters had childhood pen-pals forced on them in an 
attempt to "broaden their horizons."  Wagers, anyone?

Linda G. - Is Kip "out there?"  Need you ask?  :-)  Thanks for the 
musical pointers!

Anda - Thanks to the miracle of 10-point type, you are officially no 
longer insane!  It takes a real bite out of the page count.  And I can 
still afford to mail this rag, at least for the time being...

Jacquie - I don't have Stivell's The Mist of Avalon, but I do have his 
Celtic Symphony:  Tir Na nOg, which I enjoy but which can't really be 
used as "background music."  It wants to be listened to!  He cribs a 
fascinating bit of Irish verse for the piece "Universal Fete:"

Come, you people of Low Brittany and of all countries
To dance the universal dance, the dance of the people 
of the Earth
Those who only believe in man, those who prayed God
Their words could not tell the Truth
Each held a part of truth, a share of error
Only one thing was completely false!  Being beyond the 
others
Let's respect them in their ways, their colours, their 
languages, their customs
Let's love them, whoever it may be, for another three 
hundred thousand years.
*************************************************************************
*Pen is homeless as of late September/mid-October 1993.  She'll         *
*probably have enough money to relocate within the continental U.S.; but* 
*not much more than that.She needs a home and a job (she has an         *
*Associate's Degree in Office Management.)  Pen uses crutches, but can  * 
*handle a finite number of stairs - first or second floor preferred.    *  
*Allergy-wise, she can live with any creature but a cigarette smoker,   *
*and has no pets herself. Any offers, leads, ideas, anything is welcome!*  
*Please let me know via email.                                          *
*************************************************************************
The latest reprint available from Cousins is AMER's (the Alliance for 
Magical and Earth Religions) Guide to Dealing with Police Harassment.  
A quick, well-organized read, this 5-page (3-sheet) flyer gives a good 
solid foundation on what to expect, what to do and what not to do, and 
such fine points as the difference between a public defender and your 
own attorney.  Send a SASE for this one.  I recommend it very highly!  
To contact AMER directly, write them at P.O. Box 16551, Clayton, MO  
63105, call (314) 994-1026, or email them via their Net liaison Chris 
Carlisle.  She can be reached at:
	C24884CC@wuvmd.bitnet
	or
	C24884CC@wuvmd.wustl.edu

Louise Bath has also kindly retyped and sent along a copy of The 
Saracen Craft, an article by Lugh from the Spring 1992 edition of The 
Cauldron.  It's heavily polarized between the vision of an original 
European polytheism and a very strict Saracen insistence on worshipping 
no divinity outside the self.  I found this article starkly black-and-
white, awkwardly pat, and frankly weird, but it offers one explanation 
for the difference between northern and southern/central European 
indigenous religion as it's come down to us.  And at 4 pages, it's a 
quick and utterly novel read.  Send a SASE if you're intersted.  
Thanks, Louise!

Last but not least is "Pagan and Spirituality Zines."  This is a list, 
current as of 4/3/93, of 25 available periodicals with a brief 
description of each and subscription information.  Although the issue-
for-issue facts are somewhat out of date, one hopes that the addresses 
are still current and the subscription prices at least still in the 
ballpark.  This one's 2 double-sided pages long, and about as frank as 
a hot-dog stand.  The folks at Factsheet Five pull no punches, and are 
thorough and concise.  Who are they?  I'm not sure!  But you can reach 
them at:
Factsheet Five
P.O. Box 170099
San Francisco CA  94117-0099
or:  jerod23@well.sf.ca.us
Anyone who's studying traditional medicine and would like some 
organically-grown comfrey leaf, please drop me a few stamps!  I've got 
plenty.  If you'd like to try growing your own, I can send along a root 
cutting as well.

I want to thank Patti Heyes for sending me R. Garc'ia y Robertson's 
novel The Spiral Dance (ISBN 0-380-76518-7).  I can't say enough about 
how much I enjoyed this book!  Set in a period of history about which I 
know absolutely nothing, it still kept me riveted with its intricate 
plot and well-defined characters.  The story follows Countess Anne 
Somerset Percy through the abortive Rising in the North (1569-1570) 
against Queen Elizabeth and Tudor absolutism, and chronicles her flight 
into Scotland and beyond.  The descriptions are vivid, the dialogue 
natural, the violence horrific but necessary for historic 
verisimilitude, and the pace lively and even.  But the best thing about 
this book is Garc'ia y Robertson's approach to magic.  His realistic 
events and accurate explanations are completely consistent both within 
the story and with magic as it moves in the world.  And his portrayal 
of the Goddess is unfailingly true, breathtakingly so in spots.  Patti 
generously GAVE me this wonderful book, so let me know if you want to 
borrow it.

Computer genius Cousin Susan Gavula tells me that Cousins issues 1-6 
are now available for anonymous FTP from etext.archive.umich.edu in 
/pub/Zines/Cousins.  And if you don't know what that means, please ask 
Susan, not me!  I'm still getting the hang of this Ethernet stuff.  
Susan, thank you for your hard work and for sharing the fruits of your 
formidable knowledge!

I think I'd like to close this issue with a bit of verse sent to me 
months ago by Cousin Ruth Dempsey.  Thank you, Ruth!
	Outwitted
	Edwin Markham
He drew a circle that shut me out -
Heretic, rebel, a thing to flout,
But Love and I had the wit to win:
We drew a circle that took him in!